Why do so many people distrust socialism?

[malificent7]

Is it due to the legacy of Marx, the notion that it's a race to the bottom, the feeling that those who work harder should get paid more or a mistrust of human nature?
I do understand these concerns but what is more worrying if the vast inequality that seems to prevail nowadays. Thoughts please.

King Midas that sounds like communism as opposed to democratic socialism where there is a market economy but subject to regulation.

USSR, China, Cuba, Nicaragua, Cambodia, North Korea, Venezuela....and there are doubtless other roaring success stories out there.

OP (If you come back) I think you have the illusionist case of "The grass is definitely greener on the other side of the fence!"

"The grass is definitely greener on the other side of the fence!"

The grass is greener where it has been watered. The top .01% of the world doesn't give a damn if we get a drink anymore.

I have lived under a socialist regime. Enough said.

Reward for one of most pointless comments in thread was it good bad ect what was it like, that statement gives no opinion either way.

nobaggypants - Do people understand the difference between socialism in its more extreme forms, and democratic socialism, which is what you find in Europe

One of my fears of Brexit is that the UK will emulate more and more a US style of economic and social way of running a country. Most of northern Europe - Scandanavia etc - have a much more democratic socialist view of community which leads to much less inequality. The hard right view of community espoused by Johnson will make matters worse.

Bishop “market economy but subject to regulation”

Isn’t that what we had pre 1980s?

I studied Politics at Uni
Of of my profs said that Fascism was Communism without the hypocrisy
I know all socialism isn’t communism but I do agree with the sentiment

Socialism is much older than Marx.

People dont read anymore. And if they do get politics its from some shouty american prat on youtube.

Compaing socialism here to communism in some 3rd world country is just absurd.

Labour also have always be too quiet about their socialist achievements, especially the 45' government (As they were also too quiet about the complete uselessness of Churchill and his party in the war)

Coud you imagine what this country would be like with a constant tory government for 100 years? now that really would be some dystopian horrorshow.

Some sort of socialism is also needed to save the earth from this now very obvious envionmental disaster of climate change.

We can go on ignoring it and worshipping at the alter of eternal growth, or take resonsibility and stop the rampage of capitalism, slow down the power stations and roads as well as killing wage inequality.

Democratic socialicism in the west isnt some Khmer Rouge experiment which bans money or earning a bigger wage. It simply means more once wagesare stopped and the supposedly lower down workers who ae essential earn a fair cut.

George Orwells bit about D. Socialism in Why I Write (I think it was) is pretty much a masterpiece on explaining a decent socialist model. He reckoned nobody should be earning any more than 20 times the lowest wage. Thats fair isnt it? Should Bankers be earning millions whilst nurses use food banks?

Also think of how Britain worked during world war 2. It has been termed war communism, and it really wasnt far off that.

As NoBaggyPants said upthread though, Democratic Socialism is quite a different beast to Soviet Socialism or China. When Corbyn and John McDonald talk about Socialism that’s what they’re talking about- about the right of all children to have access to the kind of education on offer at Eton and to be groomed for Oxford.... not just the people who paid for it. It’s about you not having to hang around for operations when your richer neighbour is jumping the queue to see the same doctor privately because they can afford to pay for it. It’s about inherited wealth and connections not defining if you can get to the top (COUGHBoJoCOUGH).

Work hard, do well, reap the rewards- sure. But how many of the people at the top of our society actually did that to get where they are?

When I studied socialism at university in Scotland I was taught that the crux of socialism was that the state had control of the means of production, supply and exchange.

Ie, much like the USSR, and nothing like any Western European state at any time in history. No free market. No private business.

And that of course means no freedom. As it is, the 1% are able to manipulate news and other information. That's bad enough. Think how much worse it would be if the state was the only game in town. Don't assume it would be democratic. Everything would be manipulated, just as it was in the Eastern Bloc.

Also in response to previous post. We aren't in late stage capitalism. Marxists have been saying this for over 100 years. It's wearing a little thin.

My dps came from a communist country. Moved to the UK to escape it.
Works in theory, never in practice.
Fuck that!

Because I don’t earn a lot of money as it is and I’m afraid of having even less.

I also remember being taught that "democratic socialism" was just liberal free-market capitalism with a safety net. Not socialism in the classic sense because the means of production, supply and exchange remains in private hands. A bit like Christianity but without any belief in God

Perhaps they 100,000,000 dead in one century is enough?

TomPinch

What university was this? These are basic concepts of government. Socialism and communism are not the same, and you cannot simply have a "safety net" in capitalism. That "safety net" is socialism.

Socialism is fine until you run out of other peoples money. Socialism involves taking people off money like me who works hard, and giving it to others who may not work hard. At lot of labour politicians are champagne socialists and hypocrites. They want socialism for YOU but much prefer a different lifestyle for themselves and their own.

Why are people going on about North Korea etc. ffs. Its like somebody asking about capitalist systems and people bringing up Pinochet's Chile as typical model. You clearly know we arnt talking about soviet style communism. Dont be fucking disingenous.

This is about the socialist aspects of society that have been extremely successful in northern europe.

Knitted

Jesus, maybe take my post in context? I was responding to a poster's comment that dictators are associated with the left, and pointing out the obvious. Doesn't mean I don't know about Stalin and Mao FFS. I assume you're equally well informed about Pinochet, Mussolini and Franco.

Ultimately both extremes, fascism and communism, produce dicatorships and are dreadful systems to live under. Their less extreme counterparts, capitalism and socialism, are workable systems as long as they have each other to keep them in check. At this point in time, capitalism has gone too far as it is failing a significant portion of the population. A swing towards more socialist policies is inevitable in the next 5-10 years. And on the cycle goes.

Thats old style Communism TomPinch and has nothing to do with this.

People just wouldn't have the motivation to do anything over and above.

I just don't understand this way of thinking. Many of the most successful people I know we're born into very wealthy families with no need to work for money, and rather than sitting around doing nothing, they were able to follow their passions in life and give their talents their full attention.

I know plenty of people who do huge amounts of voluntary work, not for financial reward, but because the work needs to be done.

And plenty of others who work hard in low paid or low-status jobs and are rewarded by the knowledge that they've done a job well.

My job is badly paid, and with no chance of promotion, but I would happily do it for free

One issue is that socialism doesn't really work in a globalised economy because you can't ringfence your tax take effectively (given that corporation tax is so critical) and you need high taxes to fund a large welfare state. Also, socialism (as evidenced by the Scandinavian model) works best in mono-cultural societies with a very homogenous value set (Scandanavian culture is very consensual with a strong sense of personal responsibility that is not present in the UK). However, I agree something has to change because the structural inequality we're seeing now is unsustainable and globalisation is a race to the bottom to the detriment of all of us and the planet.

Socialism is fine until you run out of other peoples money. Socialism involves taking people off money like me who works hard, and giving it to others who may not work hard.

That's the Tory definition, not the reality.

Do you really think there are that many people sitting on their arse taking 'your' money? Do you think low paid workers like carers haven't truly put the graft in and are less deserving than an office worker on twice their salary?

Because we have observed human nature and history and know how it will inevitably go wrong.