Why do so many people distrust socialism?

[malificent7]

Is it due to the legacy of Marx, the notion that it's a race to the bottom, the feeling that those who work harder should get paid more or a mistrust of human nature?
I do understand these concerns but what is more worrying if the vast inequality that seems to prevail nowadays. Thoughts please.

@Sakura7
I think the negative reaction is not to democratic socialism but to socialism. We should be concerned about pure socialism which would destroy the free market economy.

There is a definition here: www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

I don't see it as half vs half, actually.
I see it as dependent upon your income you contribute appropriately. In return everyone gets an equal opportunity for education including further education, everyone gets appropriate healthcare in a timely manner and everyone gets equal access to public and emergency services.
Proper funding has multiple benefits on society - it lowers crime rates and improves health outcomes.

Pretty sure Venezuela was a lot more communist...

We are programmed to compete with other humans for resources

Not sure I buy that. Just because humans have had to do that in the past, doesn't mean it's desirable or that we're programmed to want that. Why would anyone want the hard, uncertain road if there's a better way?

Plus there have been more famous examples of left wing dictatorships than right wing

Eh, the most famous dictator in the world, who started a world war that killed 3% of the global population, was a far right fascist. The people who admire him today are far right fascists.

@Sakura7 generally it's only those who have all the resources who see it that way.... or think they do...

Because neo liberalism capitalist rich and powerful have spent decades making sure we distrust it.

Capitalism doesn't work.

Unfettered capitalism doesn't work, neither does unfettered communism.
Capitalism is all very well but the market does need some regulation.

People did have free university. My generation were typical "uni age" during the Blair years when every man and his dog went to university.

I would not say that most of them came out with meaningful degrees and went off into the field of work they trained in.

What it did do was "cheapen" the degree, making them two a penny where people didn't bat an eyelid anymore. Having a degree used to be quite something.

It also meant people did degrees in jobs where it wasn't necessary, or in totally pointless subjects.

Nowadays you can't apply for certain jobs you could previously work your way up in from the bottom or start as very junior because you need a degree just to get in the door.

So no, university for everyone most certainly did not work and made work life for the disadvantaged/poorer people even worse.

It wasn't possible to keep funding the amount of people doing degrees, especially the Micky mouse ones, so the government had to start charging. This has meant those who are genuinely bright and could go on into a good career with a degree but are poorer now have to suffer because people think having "the majority " going to university is a good thing whether they need to or not.

It's not about the majority. It's about opportunity. So if the brightest and best are from a low income family they should have the same opportunity to get into university as the Rees-Mogg children.

I do think in the 90s there was too much focus on university and not enough on vocational training. The way I see it should equally be as likely for a Rees-Mogg child to train as a plumber.

Cuba might have great healthcare but the doctors are generally pissed off at earning so little for what is a rare and well rewarded skill elsewhere. Some are so pissed off that they risk swimming in shark infested waters to get to America where they can earn much more for their skill. If you can’t allow your citizens to leave your country because too many of them would go, it’s probably not a utopia.

Hitler has more fame because... His war was global?
More films have been made about him?
The nazi uniformed, German accents play well on screen?

Does that fame mean he was worsening than stalin?

Than chairman mao?

Really? Because Hitler has more fame?

Is it because people who don't read much just grasp upon Hitler as the only evil dictator because we simply have more films about Hitler and the nazi?

Stalin and chairman mao both killed more and made lives miserable for decades.

Killed, starved tortured, made living peoples lives utter misery. The Eastern bloc etc etc Venezuela, Cuba...

The only difference I can see is the nazi don't pretend to be nice and on your side where the others do then slaughter you.

Pol Pot, too. Again apart from the Nazis all communist not socalist.

And I agree, a poorer person should be able to attend university if they are bright just like a richer person. But we opened that door and the majority took advantage, which always happens when you open the door to everyone, which isn't possible for the government to fund and now poorer people suffer because jobs you could work your up in now require a degree to enter.

Look at the welfare state. A brilliant idea, amazing to help the disabled and poorer people of society but people took the piss, so it doesn't quite work in practice in every situation.

I have lived in a socialist country. The reality of socialism is ugly. You pretend you are working and they pretend they pay you. Nobody gives a monkeys how good or comfortable or fashionable the goods produced are. There is no choice. You do what the society tells you or else. Anybody who has any socialist leanings should go and live in North Korea for 3 years or so to give them sufficient time to submerge themselves in the reality of it. It is all right to spout socialism living in a free country where they aren’t going to jail you for not falling in line. People who are so deluded really must experience the socialism in action. Yes there are ‘heavenly’ places on the globe where it exists.

I have lived through it and I have got no illusions. Indeed, I got out at the first opportunity. It ain’t all it seems.

Daisy I agree with many of your points but regardless of whether the graduate went into well paid field of work, mostly higher Ed is a good thing, skills, knowledge etc.

Personally I don't think having one is be all and end all, having said that I don't knock them either, learning more about anything is never bad, even if it's micky mouse himself.

@Sakura7

Wtf- the most famous dictator... are you forgetting Chairman Mao?

King,

Life and death in Shangai by nien cheng is one of the most disturbing books I've ever read.
How it starts and quickly descends, anyone thinking it's a good idea, read that first.

Hope op comes back to clarify.

Those skills and knowledge are great, but pretty useless if you aren't applying them to your job role, especially if the government has paid thousands for the privilege.

If you want to learn skills and knowledge then great, but if you aren't applying them to better yourself within employment and are just going on a jolly for your own satisfaction then pay for it yourself.

Capitalism

@KingMidasAteMidges

I agree 100%

Really worrying how ignorant people are on this stuff.

How about anyone who has socialist leanings can go live in that awful place called Denmark?

Anyways, this is a silly discussion. We are in late stage capitalism, the current system is going to implode because the economic powers that be do not need such a large population for labour anymore. Unless you are in league with Bill Gates or Richard Branson, stop being brainwashed against your own self interests.

Who is more worthy of education?

A. The kid who grew up on a council estate, but who's parents are just over the threshold to allow him to get enough money to go to university. This kid would be a future brain surgeon.

B. The kid with the right connections, went to a private school and will have his education funded by Daddy. This kid will be a future coke addict banker in central London.

I think the system that supports Kid A, is the right one.

It is just very unfortunate that those who do genuinely want to further themselves into higher fields of work which require a degree now have to pay thousands to do so because people took the piss getting pointless degrees for free.

Knowledge is great. Learning is great. But there are ways of learning without costing the government millions of pounds a year and spoiling it for those who do require a formal degree for their work.

Socialism is only good for those at the top; and they always tend to do very nicely indeed out of it.

Ironic really.

I have lived under a socialist regime. Enough said.