Sending money back to PIL - WWYD?

[Namechangedonceagain]

My DH is Indian, and his family live in India. They're wonderful, although very traditional. (For example, we had a very hard time convincing them that we wouldn't be moving to India to live with them in their family home as per the tradition, but they have seem to have finally understood this now and stopped asking.)

We have an awkward situation with them regarding money. Traditionally, as a son, my husband is expected to send money back to the family home to support them. There are four people (parents and grandparents) living their permanently, and his sister and her baby live there half the week (the other half with her husband and his family). PIL buy almost everything for SIL and her baby (may be relevent).

So, DH feels really awkward as there's an expectation that we will send money back to them every month. But they don't need the money. They have another house that they rent out which means they can afford all food and everything else they need on a daily basis. They also have a huge amount of property and land which they could sell if they wanted to and be very wealthy. (I don't mean the land that they live on (which is also huge!) - I mean additional unused land which is seperate to where they live and just going to waste. They don't want to sell it but we aren't sure why, as it's really not used at all and worth a lot of money.) Should add - we only think they should sell a small part of it as they should enjoy their retirement and travel, something they've never done - we don't want any of the money!

Here is my confusion. I asked DH why, traditionally, we should send money that they don't need. He said (traditionally) they'd keep any money that we don't use in a savings account so that any left over after their death would be divided between him and SIL. As SIL isn't expected to contribute any money, this seems odd and unfair to me - so we should give them a proportion of our money each month so that maybe in 30 years we can have half of it back? And SIL can have the other half?

Secondly, he said that he thinks the reason his dad is reluctant to sell part of the land is because he wants to leave it (along with all other land) for DH and SIL in his will. Which is lovely but they've both told him they don't need it and would rather he sold it and enjoyed his retirement!

I guess my question is, how would you deal with this? DH and I don't want to send the money (we really can't afford to send money - any contribution would be a struggle at the moment - especially to people who don't need it) and it seems really odd since they are much wealthier than us and don't need it.

Not only do they have a lot of land and income from tenants but they also gifted SIL several thousand pounds when she got married (again, a tradition) while we got nothing (as not a tradition). It just seems a bit unfair that SIL has thousands of pounds sat in the bank which isn't being used (as PIL pay for everything for her and her baby) and yet we are expected to send our hard earned money to them each month so they can potentially just put it in the bank and give us half back when we are old and hopefully more financially secure! There's no question that SIL should or would contribute in anyway.

We love them but we really aren't in a financial position to send money but don't know how to not play a part in this tradition as it will cause offence (we have already upset them by not living with them so are worried this might really make them upset).

DH isn't traditional at all and has lived abroad a long time so sees this whole thing as just as odd as I do. Keen to add also that we don't blame them at all - we know it's just a tradition which is why they expect it. But if we weren't to give them money they would be a bit hurt and also embarrassed in front of their friends and relatives (who use their children's incomes to show off to each other and compete about whose child buys them the most!)

They would never force us to send money or be angry about it - I don't think (although these traditions seem to run deep so sometimes their reactions to our breaking them are surprising).

WWYD?

Greeve, most of the South Asian women I know from that kind of cushy background went to university and had careers. Is that not your experience? If someone has a job and wants to hire help, all power to them. But that is not the situation with OP’s SIL.

Mrex, the topic is financial support to someone who doesn’t want to contribute in any way to supporting herself, potentially by two people in the UK who work hard to live a modest lifestyle. SIL’s refusal to roll her sleeves up is relevant.

but it would cause them so much hurt which we desperately don't want
Stop allowing yourself to be emotionally blackmailed and manipulated.
'Hurt' because you stop financing their savings and financing SIL?
Pull the other one!
How about you tell then that you can't afford to send them money?
That the streets in the West are NOT paved with gold?

They're using money to keep 'control' of 'their' son.
Don't think that they've stopped trying to interfere in and control your relationship/money just because they've 'accepted' you won't move abroad to provide them with unpaid care that they feel entitled to - because it's their 'tradition'.

Your husband can send money out of his personal spends if he wants, you have every right to veto family money/your personal spends being given to other people.

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis - you're talking about huge places and being very general. I worked in China for 4 years and not a single one of the friends I had there had domestic help. It was very much not the norm at all, and I lived in a big city. Women either worked or they took care of the home and kids. Often they did both just like in the UK. Nobody I knew just relaxed at home like a queen all the time! I'm really shocked to hear this because it totally goes against my experience of Chinese culture. I found people incredibly hardworking and I cant imagine choosing to lounge around all day and hiring help to do jobs would be at all well received by family, or society in general. In my experience it would be very much looked down on. I'm not denying it might happen in SOME places - it's an enormous country! But making out it's the norm is simply untrue.

Similarly, in DHs entire enormous extended family and all of his friends who we see almost yearly, i only know one person who has domestic help (a nanny) and this is because she works, her husband passed away, she has a child, and no other (close) family still alive. DHs friends and family have a variety of different jobs - government workers, doctors, lawyers, shop workers, small business owners, events planners, sales - a big variety of people from different walks of life. I've never heard of anyone else having domestic help. And in his area, choosing to hire help so you could sit around all day or do nothing would also not be acceptable. The DIL is traditionally responsible for helping the MIL - basically acting as a sort of assistant in the house , with MIL doing a lot of the cooking and cleaning and the DIL helping. If she works, then she is expected to do much less. But doing absolutely nothing? No. This is absolutely NOT a part of my husband's culture. But again, India is a HUGE place and traditions and cultural expectations will vary according to area, religion, caste, etc. You just can't generalise.

As for your saying that DH not giving money is like losing a state pension - it really isn't. They will still have a state pension. They still have plenty of money to live on. They still have a huge amount of land they could sell (not including the private properties they rent out and get a regular income from, and not including the big house and huge piece of land that they live on). I'm talking about unused land which could be sold as it's literally sat there doing nothing.

You're sort of making up your own story here 😂

Are you honestly saying that if you lived in this type of house share, ate meals together as a group, and wanted a share of the family money, you would think it's reasonable to literally never help with cooking (but happily eat the meal), literally never help with cleaning (but happily be cleaned up after), literally never go to work to contribute towards the family pot (but expect to be able to spend money from the family pot), and with all your free time still expect someone else to look after your kids?

That's not just okay because SIL is from another culture. That's weird in her culture too. Like I said, it causes a huge amount of problems for the family as her PIL are really humiliated by her behaviour and her neighbours/extended family members gossip about it.

But okay. You say it's normal (because you believe this behaviour is normal in some parts of the world) so it must be normal in this exact case too. You know them all, you know the culture, so only you can say for sure. Oh, wait....

Not what you said was In China, which makes up most of the Far East, do you think people ‘usually’ have staff? That is not the case anywhere outside the Gulf States. Jesus wept. you seem to think domestic help is unique to the gulf, I simply said it wasn’t and that in large parts of the world washing cleaning ie domestic duties are carried out by maids/houseboys or girls/ayahs/amahs depending on region. I posted two links one describing the importance of domestic workers in China because that was the country you identified as having none and one a map of where domestic workers were more common. It is unusual in most of the world for middle class families not to have help in the home. Your insistence that it is a “gulf state” phenomena is just not true.

Puzzledandpissedoff - Thank you for your lovely message. I really think we will work it out too. As much as we love in-laws you're right - we have to put each other and the kids first and we agree on that So at least we have each others support and know we are on the same page.
Thank you for your support

cardamoncoffee - that made me laugh! My biggest issues has come from people who have watched Downton Abbey - as it gets more popular the idea that most English people live in an enormous manor seems to be getting more popular too 😂

I think you are misunderstanding me OP. What I was saying about the state pension was it is equivalent to losing it if you have house property and investments, not they’ll be destitute. For example many people in the uk try to pay off their house have a holiday rental and some investment but plan to live on their pension. It would I think be polite to tell them exactly what to expect so they can adjust accordingly. You asked wwyd, I’d do that.
As far as knowing your particular families set up, of course I don’t. I’m not an expert in every region of the world. I’m surprised at your description of China and of the general impression that domestic staff are rare and unique to one region of the Middle East. That’s not my experience. I think that link says 1 in five families have help in the home, so perhaps we just live in different circles? I’m not sure if it matters to your situation really.

minionsrule, thanks for your comment! It's nice to hear from other people who understand how I'm feeling. The fact that they're so lovely almost makes the feelings of guilt - of having 'stolen' their son worse! Although my husband already rejected traditional life long before he met me, I still worry that they'll blame me or see me as the reason why they don't have their grandchildren living with them. It's hard! I don't want to upset anyone. But at the same time we all just have to live our life in the way we think is best (and the way we can afford! Haha)

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis - "For example many people in the uk try to pay off their house have a holiday rental and some investment but plan to live on their pension."

Actually, that's a good point. I guess it is a lot like this. I'd not really thought of it in this way before - we had seen it as, they have a lot, they don't NEED our money, and we can't afford to send it. But if I look at it in terms of how you said I can see how it will be, to them, like a loss.

To us, because we are in a situation at the moment where we NEED every penny, and would really notice the loss of anything (as some months we are already minus what we need) I suppose we saw it as a bit ridiculous that we would even consider sending money when they're very financially comfortable and don't need it. But this doesn't change the fact that they'd miss it because it was something they always thought they'd get.

I feel really bad about the whole situation and in a way I'm glad you said that because it made me understand more clearly why it's important to them, but in a way I wish you hadn't because now I feel more guilty that we cant afford it! But it's better to see the situation as clearly as possible.

As for telling them - we already have told them we aren't in a position to send right now and they know we haven't been so far. But I still don't know if it would be better to say outright 'Stop expecting it now as it's probably never going to happen.' or something like this? You know? Like it's really difficult to know how to talk to them about something which as you've already said, they thought was a given that they'd be getting.

If it helps we used to “help” far more than we do now. Families understand. For us we have unforeseen expenses because one of my children is disabled. You can only do what you can do. It’s worth telling them how tight things are. Be kind and honest, they sound nice so I’m sure you can work it all out.

Send a tenner a month. Obligation to tradition met with, but no great hardship on your part.

Fwiw I'd stop being too concerned or aware of what's going on in your PILS house with your SIL. I suspect. You'll never make sense of it nor get the equality from breaking with tradition she's afforded.

All sounds a bit shit, but you're not in the thick of it and that's got to be worth a tenner a month?!

I am married to an Indian man who does need to send money back to his Parents and that's fine, they supported him through school and university (financially) and then moving abroad and university again.

A little money here goes along way there and they do have household help even though they are not rich.

People in India do have the impression people in the UK are rich and that is true literally even if we don't feel it in reality.

I would say your husband is a rarity for moving abroad and studying for a long time but not getting a well paid job at the end of it all and maybe his family don't understand that.

I also think that possibly the land your husbands family own may be tied up in some way. For example my husbands father owns some land but he can't sell it because it is owned with his many brothers and he would need them to agree.

In your position I would send a small amount every month. I imagine that your MIL might just want to buy an occasional item with the money which she can then tell people her son in the UK paid for.

All the best for your decision. I love having an Indian family and it sounds as if you love yours.

Domestic help is very very common in Hong Kong and Singapore. The majority of middle class families with kids have a “helper”, usually a Filipina or Indonesian woman who lives in (they are not legally allowed to live separately). It can be tough because rents are high and apartments are small, but needs must because the mc women tend to need to work to afford the rent and there is much less nursery-type childcare. On Sundays, the helpers’ day off, the streets and parks are thronged with thousands upon thousands of helpers socialising. It’s a very visible part of the fabric of society there. Just giving another example of how not confined to the ME.

@Namechangedonceagain a few questions

How much do you think the in laws are expecting you to send?
Do they regularly mention this expectation-if so, how? What do they actually say? What do you say in response?
Does SIL know about this expectation and is she expecting it too? If you talked to her about it, what would she say? Would she understand that you and DH working to send money back to the in laws to pay for her is actually depriving your own children?
Why don’t the SIL and her DH get a separate house-is that not usual? What are his reasons?