Sending money back to PIL - WWYD?

[Namechangedonceagain]

My DH is Indian, and his family live in India. They're wonderful, although very traditional. (For example, we had a very hard time convincing them that we wouldn't be moving to India to live with them in their family home as per the tradition, but they have seem to have finally understood this now and stopped asking.)

We have an awkward situation with them regarding money. Traditionally, as a son, my husband is expected to send money back to the family home to support them. There are four people (parents and grandparents) living their permanently, and his sister and her baby live there half the week (the other half with her husband and his family). PIL buy almost everything for SIL and her baby (may be relevent).

So, DH feels really awkward as there's an expectation that we will send money back to them every month. But they don't need the money. They have another house that they rent out which means they can afford all food and everything else they need on a daily basis. They also have a huge amount of property and land which they could sell if they wanted to and be very wealthy. (I don't mean the land that they live on (which is also huge!) - I mean additional unused land which is seperate to where they live and just going to waste. They don't want to sell it but we aren't sure why, as it's really not used at all and worth a lot of money.) Should add - we only think they should sell a small part of it as they should enjoy their retirement and travel, something they've never done - we don't want any of the money!

Here is my confusion. I asked DH why, traditionally, we should send money that they don't need. He said (traditionally) they'd keep any money that we don't use in a savings account so that any left over after their death would be divided between him and SIL. As SIL isn't expected to contribute any money, this seems odd and unfair to me - so we should give them a proportion of our money each month so that maybe in 30 years we can have half of it back? And SIL can have the other half?

Secondly, he said that he thinks the reason his dad is reluctant to sell part of the land is because he wants to leave it (along with all other land) for DH and SIL in his will. Which is lovely but they've both told him they don't need it and would rather he sold it and enjoyed his retirement!

I guess my question is, how would you deal with this? DH and I don't want to send the money (we really can't afford to send money - any contribution would be a struggle at the moment - especially to people who don't need it) and it seems really odd since they are much wealthier than us and don't need it.

Not only do they have a lot of land and income from tenants but they also gifted SIL several thousand pounds when she got married (again, a tradition) while we got nothing (as not a tradition). It just seems a bit unfair that SIL has thousands of pounds sat in the bank which isn't being used (as PIL pay for everything for her and her baby) and yet we are expected to send our hard earned money to them each month so they can potentially just put it in the bank and give us half back when we are old and hopefully more financially secure! There's no question that SIL should or would contribute in anyway.

We love them but we really aren't in a financial position to send money but don't know how to not play a part in this tradition as it will cause offence (we have already upset them by not living with them so are worried this might really make them upset).

DH isn't traditional at all and has lived abroad a long time so sees this whole thing as just as odd as I do. Keen to add also that we don't blame them at all - we know it's just a tradition which is why they expect it. But if we weren't to give them money they would be a bit hurt and also embarrassed in front of their friends and relatives (who use their children's incomes to show off to each other and compete about whose child buys them the most!)

They would never force us to send money or be angry about it - I don't think (although these traditions seem to run deep so sometimes their reactions to our breaking them are surprising).

WWYD?

@itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis:

RTFT. I mentioned the Gulf States already.

The Middle East and Far East are big places. Where did you mean? It’s not OK in Russia, Korea, China, Japan, Iran or anywhere else I know for women to refuse household tasks AND not work, unless the family is super-rich.

Would you describe the OPs family as “super rich” in their community? Certainly in the Middle East and the Far East I think domestic duties are usually carried out by staff. I think the same in much of Africa?

@greeve

We were talking not about ‘financial support of family resources’ but about the expectation that OP’s household should contribute while SIL is encouraged not to lift a finger.

My skin colour is not your business and it is rude to raise it at all. And your assumptions regarding neat overlap of race and ‘western dominant culture’ are ignorant.

I haven't RTFT but I am from a similar background so get it. People in Asia/ME assume that everyone is very rich in the UK, therefore don't think of taking money to 'put back into the family'. I remember the last time we went back home the family were laughing at our mobiles because they were old, they have stereotypical ideas that everyone is rolling in cash and I had to convince an elderly relative that money trees do not exist, as apparently everyone in the UK has one in the garden I go to great lengths to tell them what we have/don't have, that we buy mostly second hand furniture, my car is 17 years old etc. We don't send anything an nor do they ask or expect. The last few times we didn't even take presents.

It’s equivalent to losing your state pension. They sound like they may be able to absorb it by selling off family land. This is likely to upset them because sacrifices will have been made to keep it over the years and possibly for generations. They may have to cut back on the money they give SIL. However they manage the change in model the respectful and kind thing to do is to tell them as soon as possible and as clearly as possible.

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis:

whaaat? What percentage of the population do you think is made up by ‘staff’ in that case? And how do they live?

In China, which makes up most of the Far East, do you think people ‘usually’ have staff? That is not the case anywhere outside the Gulf States. Jesus wept.

No, the OP’s family is not super rich. SIL’s MIL does her own washing up. That’s the whole point. SIL’s expectations are not normal.

Also the last time I was there a relative saw a photo of a local castle on my phone and assumed it was our house! When my SIL visited here she was horrified how small our house was and was very upset that we didn't have an indoor swimming pool, as apparently that's another myth.

Tell them that due to Brexit new Anti-Money laundering laws mean that you cant send money abroad......and then getting it back when they die will also be a problem & incur a lot of tax. Best keep it in the UK. 😉

@makingmammaries ahem. If you are talking about rural China then possibly. As I would assume in rural areas everywhere. In the rest of the Far East I can assure you it is unremarkable to have domestic help.

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis:

Not true anywhere in China. And, coming back to the point, please name me a country outside the Gulf where it is normal for a woman not to lift a finger inside the household or out.

I’m gobsmacked how many close relatives (not strangers) back home think you have an indoor swimming pool and live in luxury. Surely if you are close, you have regular conversations and send photos showing your house, the garden, your car, your stuff etc. How can they be under any illusions? When they make comments-you out them straight, show them the reality??

I understand it more if you barely know them, but close family?!

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/supchina.com/2019/03/15/domestic-workers-in-china-invisible-vulnerable-and-indispensable/amp/

My question wasn’t aimed at anyone in particular-just anyone who has close family under that impression.

The inheritence tax aspect is a good one. What if the PILs have to pay a large portion of their estate in tax, and there is a lot less money than expected when they die? In effect that means that the money the OPs DH is sending will end up in the hands of the Indian tax office, rather than come back to him.

I agree that it's madness to send money back like this, for tradition's sake when they don't need the money and the OP does. It's not like the DHs family are very poor and a couple of hundred pounds a month or whatever would make a massive difference to their lives.

The amount of money people have in the UK can seem like a lot to people in poorer countries, but they must also be aware how expensive things are here, especially housing, childcare, eating out, travel etc.

Young families in the UK even on good salaries may have little or no disposable income once housing, travel, childcare and other expenses have been taken into account.

OP your posts from 6.15 this morning really rung true with me. My DH is from India, I am British, his family were really welcoming to me and they still are but i felt like you, guilty i had somehow taken him away but just like your DH, mine did not want a traditional Indian life either. When MIL was widowed it was even harder.
We don't keep up with tradition mainly to be honest but that is DH's choice however if his mum needs money for something large he will send it but we don't do regular money home.
To all the people saying OP should have thrashed this all out before commiting to marriage, well to be honest you don't always realise it all beforehand and even if you do you don't think of every little thing, sometimes stuff comes up that you hadn't thought about (eg PIL death you know it will happen but you don't plan for it).
Hindsight is wonderful and you can plan all you like but what you say you will do in the future and what you actually do when an event arises are two different things.
Hope you sort it op........ you could just say their grandchildren will just have to have a poor education if you continue to fund them and not go to uni

Are you sure that you understand the PILs financial position accurately? It can be easy to make assumptions. Regardless what's needed here is for your DH to have a chat with them:

1. In the UK we need to buy a house, rent is wasting a lot of our income so we're finding it a bit tight, but that's our plan over the next few years.
2. How are the family all getting on financially back in India, is everyone ok?
3. The usual expectation would be for us to send money, but we're finding it tough while saving for the house and while the children are young. Can we set up a small respectful payment to up e.g. 1000 Rupees /month (£11 or so now, unlikely to go over £20 even with massive exchange rate shifts)? Then you know, see what they say. Their financial position may be different than you understand; they might have real issues and need to sell the land if they don't get any money within the next few years. Or they might have heaps more money than you think and suggest giving you a deposit, which may or may not be in exchange for a higher monthly payment. One Indian friend's wealthy parents did this and actually gave him quite a lot of money, I think £100k, but he's now paying them every month and for a while also gave his in-laws a sum every month (I don't remember why he gives money to the in-laws, there was some sort of incident).

In my opinion, giving nothing at all is unnecessarily rude when you could give a peppercorn amount that leaves MIL free to tell her friends "my son's such a good boy and doing so well, you know they gave a house in the UK now AND he sends us money every single month" (neglecting to mention the actual amount).

I like Mrex s post and that might be what we would do if needed.

It's pathetic but I really just want the cowards way out - for all the issues and expectations to disappear, without any blame or any resentment, and for us to just be a normal happy family!

Actually I don't think you're being pathetic or cowardly at all; you simply want what anyone in the west would expect, and the good news here is that your DH wants the same. This is why I'm confident you'll work it out together, realising you'll never suit anyone but that what matters most is your own nuclear family

I consider many aspects of this culture sexist and even abusive. But I acknowledge that that's if you look at it from a western perspective. Within the culture, some things aren't abusive that we would consider abusive

You write a great deal of sense about this too. I never know whether to be amused or frustrated when folk insist someone else's culture must be seen in a certain way - and ironically they're often the same ones who fling accusations of racism at every turn

IME it just doesn't work like this; sometimes we just have to accept that what works for one culture won't be acceptable to another, and a choice has to be made - which is exactly the situation you find yourselves in

As said, though, I really believe you'll work it out and wish you both the very best with it

@makingmammaries this map gives a fairly good overview
www.ilo.org/global/topics/domestic-workers/WCMS_209773/lang--en/index.htm

It's pathetic but I really just want the cowards way out - for all the issues and expectations to disappear, without any blame or any resentment, and for us to just be a normal happy family!
This I have enormous sympathy for. I expect your in-laws feel the same. You all love each other, there will be a way to make everyone feel happy and comfortable. If it helps I know lots of mixed culture couples feel the same.

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis:

I know about domestic workers, thanks. In China for example many are employed to look after old people since there is not much of a welfare state. Do please take a look at the percentage of women in the workforce in said countries and what is considered a normal lifestyle there. Where, outside the Gulf, is it usual for women to do nothing in the home and nothing outside.

Having help is very common on India. How much help you have depends on wealth. Upper working class and middle classed people would have 2 or 3 people they pay to do things for them. One on a FT basis. That's generalizing but yeah. Same in Africa. Often it will be women from poorer more rural communities and they'd get an opportunity to study. Eg. In my home country, my aunt is a lecturer and secured a university course for the woman who was their maid. We actually call them "house girls" which is unpleasant.

But no, none of the South Asian women I know who had parents in a professional or civil job came here knowing to cook or clean a house because they'd never done it growing up. The servants did.

Those from poorer backgrounds? Yes.

Yes, some people have help. The other PP is confusing two issues. Whether people have domestic help (yes, some do) and whether in her own domestic context OP’s SIL is behaving reasonably (no, because her own MIL washes the dishes while she refuses to do anything at all).

Looks like there's a risk of the thread being a bit derailed into a thesis on washing up around the world. The percentage of women per country who don't wash up isn't actually relevant to the thread; SIL doesn't but her MIL does. Whatever, it's just dishes, cheap in India to get someone to clean them but not everybody van afford or wants that (or doesn't have someone to clean after every meal). The topic is financial support.