Sending money back to PIL - WWYD?

[Namechangedonceagain]

My DH is Indian, and his family live in India. They're wonderful, although very traditional. (For example, we had a very hard time convincing them that we wouldn't be moving to India to live with them in their family home as per the tradition, but they have seem to have finally understood this now and stopped asking.)

We have an awkward situation with them regarding money. Traditionally, as a son, my husband is expected to send money back to the family home to support them. There are four people (parents and grandparents) living their permanently, and his sister and her baby live there half the week (the other half with her husband and his family). PIL buy almost everything for SIL and her baby (may be relevent).

So, DH feels really awkward as there's an expectation that we will send money back to them every month. But they don't need the money. They have another house that they rent out which means they can afford all food and everything else they need on a daily basis. They also have a huge amount of property and land which they could sell if they wanted to and be very wealthy. (I don't mean the land that they live on (which is also huge!) - I mean additional unused land which is seperate to where they live and just going to waste. They don't want to sell it but we aren't sure why, as it's really not used at all and worth a lot of money.) Should add - we only think they should sell a small part of it as they should enjoy their retirement and travel, something they've never done - we don't want any of the money!

Here is my confusion. I asked DH why, traditionally, we should send money that they don't need. He said (traditionally) they'd keep any money that we don't use in a savings account so that any left over after their death would be divided between him and SIL. As SIL isn't expected to contribute any money, this seems odd and unfair to me - so we should give them a proportion of our money each month so that maybe in 30 years we can have half of it back? And SIL can have the other half?

Secondly, he said that he thinks the reason his dad is reluctant to sell part of the land is because he wants to leave it (along with all other land) for DH and SIL in his will. Which is lovely but they've both told him they don't need it and would rather he sold it and enjoyed his retirement!

I guess my question is, how would you deal with this? DH and I don't want to send the money (we really can't afford to send money - any contribution would be a struggle at the moment - especially to people who don't need it) and it seems really odd since they are much wealthier than us and don't need it.

Not only do they have a lot of land and income from tenants but they also gifted SIL several thousand pounds when she got married (again, a tradition) while we got nothing (as not a tradition). It just seems a bit unfair that SIL has thousands of pounds sat in the bank which isn't being used (as PIL pay for everything for her and her baby) and yet we are expected to send our hard earned money to them each month so they can potentially just put it in the bank and give us half back when we are old and hopefully more financially secure! There's no question that SIL should or would contribute in anyway.

We love them but we really aren't in a financial position to send money but don't know how to not play a part in this tradition as it will cause offence (we have already upset them by not living with them so are worried this might really make them upset).

DH isn't traditional at all and has lived abroad a long time so sees this whole thing as just as odd as I do. Keen to add also that we don't blame them at all - we know it's just a tradition which is why they expect it. But if we weren't to give them money they would be a bit hurt and also embarrassed in front of their friends and relatives (who use their children's incomes to show off to each other and compete about whose child buys them the most!)

They would never force us to send money or be angry about it - I don't think (although these traditions seem to run deep so sometimes their reactions to our breaking them are surprising).

WWYD?

It’s very rude, Greeve, to make assumptions about my skin colour

I said this before I really understood what financial abuse was. I thought it literally meant just withholding money. I was wrong.

Now I do understand what it means, I think you're being almost insulting describing this situation as financial abuse. Is my husband quits his job and demands I pay for him to just travel around having fun, and I refuse, that would be abusive of me my your definition.

You're literally being insulting to the women who ARE in financially abusive relationships by describing this situation as such.

And you didn't answer my question - why does this mean that DH and I should pay PIL money they don't need and that we can't afford?

makingmammaries -

"And why is there an obligation on the husband to provide money and no obligation on the wife to lift a finger? That’s not OK anywhere, except in some wealthy Gulf States"

Exactly!!! Thank you for helping me explain the point! I'm glad you're here! Your explanations are so much better than my long rambling rants 😂

In fact, Greeve, that assumption is racial stereotyping at its finest.

OP, glad if I can help. I’ve lived through some of this and seen more of it at close quarters. Family expectations are not easy to deal with but your DH sounds like a good sensible guy.

There is an assumption in India that people in the UK all earn loads of money and are rich.

I remember explaining to a group of women in India about the relativity of costs - so how much a small bag of rice costs in the supermarket. They were wide-eyed with disbelief.

Tell them that you love them, honour them, and respect them, but that you cannot send money because you need it for your own lives. Acknowledge that sending money each month is a tradition, and that you don't mean any disrespect, but they don't need the money and you do.

OP Is this going 'above and beyond' or is this doing the absolute minimum that a parent SHOULD do - surely failing to do these things would be neglectful?
I don’t think you really understand what neglect or even the bare minimum are. His parents did the equivalent of putting him through public school/grammar and supporting him through university in the states. If your friends and family do that as the bare minimum then you have a point. If they do less and you consider that neglect then you have a point. Otherwise you are massively minimising what was done for him.

Begrudging the support of a young mum stuck in a financially controlling incompatible marriage is unkind.

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis - what are you talking about? Every parent sends their child to school. It's literally illegal to NOT do that. And he wasn't supported by his parents through university. He was on a scholarship and worked and then when we met I helped support him.

And I DONT begrudge SIL any money from PIL! Where on earth did you get that from? I only even mentioned SIL in the first place to illustrate how much disposable income PIL have to support her to live a life of luxury. I get on really well with her, but lost of PPS asked more about her situation and that's why I'm explaining it.

And she's NOT in a financially abusive marriage.

Are we on the same thread??!! 😂 Why are you and Greeves making up your own version of events?

I have no experience of all this, but I just want to say what a caring and empathetic daughter in law you are, OP. Your love for your inlaws shines through, even though they're putting you in this really difficult position.

Given the number of rants against inlaws I read on this site, it's really refreshing to see someone discuss an issue calmly, rationally and with love for the people causing the problem!

(and yes, other posters seem to be reading something entirely different!)

Op, in the past few days there has been threads where Greeve has come and presented their opinion repeatedly and quite aggressively. In a bit of a trolling way. While I do appreciate that people have a different opinion and this is a discussion forum, it has just gotten a bit over the top. Like the ivf thread earlier.

Op, your situation sucks and I'm sorry. I think one way of doing it is just explain that you cannot afford it and then not pay a nd keep going like you are. They cannot really do anything about it. It's not optimal by any means but I don't think you can make them understand.

Sicario - you're right that everyone thinks we are rich. On a recent visit DHs schoolfriend showed us to some a property he had bought on a big beautiful piece of land that he was planning to use as a B&B. It was amazing - surrounded by beautiful nature, roof garden, swimming pool - a million times nicer than where we live! But he was almost apologising about it to me , saying he knows this isn't impressive to someone from England but that he's going to improve it more and make it nicer. I was so shocked at this, like - where do you think we live? Do you think I have a swimming pool at home? Do you think we are all super rich? But he genuinely did! He was embarrassed about this enormous gorgeous villa for no reason other than we live in England and he just assumed that this means I must live somewhere better.

I probably couldn't even afford to stay in that B&B when it's finished!

saraclara - thank you for that, that was really lovely! I had started to question myself and worrying if this was all coming across completely the wrong way because of some posters fairly angry replies! So I'm really happy to read your comment, thank you

And thank you Rezie for the warning - she does seem rather troll-y. I should have noticed that and maybe stopped engaging! I will do now

what are you talking about? Every parent sends their child to school. It's literally illegal to NOT do that.
(It isn’t illegal not to send your child to school in the uk, but that’s besides the point). I was talking about the calibre of the schooling. The aspirations and opportunities that schooling provided.
And he wasn't supported by his parents through university. He was on a scholarship and worked and then when we met I helped support him.
So who paid for flights etc? Who helped him apply for the scholarship? If it was that easy don’t you think there would be more people doing it?

Your SILs marriage sound miserable. I’d want her to have whatever joy she could.

This is fascinating-I do feel for you though as it’s very complex.

What has made the in laws think that up until now you couldn’t afford to help financially but now you can?

we would have to pay for at least 7 people to come

Who are the 7? Can’t you just pay for your parents in law, sister in Law, her husband and the baby?

except in some wealthy Gulf States"

It's between okay and expected anywhere outside the West. Particularly when education and financial independence wasn't instilled as a priority for female children.

In my culture, women marry later than they used to so we have less cases of our daughters being financially dependent on their husbands (or families who can be equally as bad) and having to endure abuse of all descriptions because they have no other means of living.

I see the witchhunt continues @Rezie. Will the girl gang follow.

And I'm sorry but as I said, this financial support of family resources is typical in most cultures outside of Western dominant culture. That's why you seem white. Am I wrong?

and he just assumed that this means I must live somewhere better.

Did you explain to him? Show him a photo of your house/a similar 3-bed semi etc. That would make it pretty clear.

Do your in Laws think you earn much more than you do? eg are you both doctors and they think you are minted?

Yep. I'd definitely be showing a photo of your home and telling them (and yes I know this feels weird) how much it costs for you to live there. It seems that people over there need to know that though the UK feels like a rich place, living here is very much more expensive than it is over there.

They did need to know that you don't have the disposable income that they think.

@Greeve
‘It's between okay and expected anywhere outside the West’ [for a woman to refuse to lift a finger while expecting to be financially supported]

Really? Not in Africa. Not in Eastern Europe. Not in Asia. Except in wealthy families where it is seen as a status symbol.

I’m wondering where precisely you have seen that, Greeve.

@makingmammaries totally unremarkable in the Far East, Middle East, what are you talking about???

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis -

1. in DH's state in India, it is illegal to not send your child to school.

2. SIL is one of my closest friends. I DO want her to have happiness. What's made you think I don't? I have repeatedly said how much I like her and how close we are. Just because I don't agree that her husband is abusive doesn't mean I don't feel sad for her being stuck in a loveless marriage. I still, however, don't see what any of this has to do with whether DH and I send money to PIL.

fedup21 - I did explain to him but still got the feeling that he thought I wasnt being honest!

Actually, 7 people is who lives in SILs husband's house. If we were to pay we would be expected to support MIL, FIL, GMIL, GFIL, SIL and her baby (they all share the house). If we lived there too (their ideal scenario) we would have to split mine and DHs salary between all of them plus DH and I and our two children.

We can't afford to send money to any of them, to be honest, and none of them need it anyway.

It costs £14 to get the four of us into town on the bus where we live in England. I told them this. That made them think! And showing them the cost of a short train journey helped too. Good old overpriced UK transport, being a good thing for once!

And are all the schools equal? I’m baffled that you are so dismissive of Dh’s upbringing.

Look bottom line is you don’t want to send money to his family. His parents need to know that as soon as possible. They will have spent their working years supporting their parents and children with the expectation that he will be paying the last bit. If you aren’t going to tell them straight and quickly so they can adjust their spending and plans. It’s really no different than losing your pension. They are lucky they have the land as back up.

@Namechangedonceagain, why did you bother posting this? You and your husband have already made up your minds. I don’t understand how anyone would enter into a cross cultural marriage without being clear about the expectations of that culture and deciding whether or not they’re prepared to accept them.