Class wedding - just me or is it a bit creepy?

[NotAnotherJaffaCake]

CofE primary, quite churchy. Rural catchment so no choice of schools unless you want to drive. They are organising a Class Wedding for one of the KS1 class - basically role playing a wedding at the local church.

Is it just me or is this creepy? Can't put my finger on it but it feels entirely inappropriate for small children. It's one thing kids messing about playing but another thing to be told by a vicar that God will not permit divorce. And there is no way this school will demonstrate a Jewish or Hindu wedding, let alone a gay one. And how do the kids whose parents have split up or never married in the first place feel?

AIBU?

If it's indoctrination, it's pretty poor. We covered marriage in our school, from our class only 4 out of 30 got married, and one of those was a lesbian wedding.
We also covered the Koran, a Seder meal, etc. I'm not sure any of those had a lasting impact either except it taught tolerance and respect for people of all beliefs and none.
From some of the uninformed and intolerant posts on here, I can definitely see the need for education that promotes tolerance and respect.
Religion is a great jumping off point for teaching about culture, society, history.

Yes that's very creepy. I think we've moved on as a society from that nonsense.

from a wide field of world religions not known for their equal opportunities policies, it’s the patrimony of the C of E that the OP complains of Because that's the one she's coming up against.

If you think that a church wedding is synonym of oppression from the patriarchy (oh I love this forum) YAB massively U to send your kids there, or to refuse to start a debate about it.

You can't send your kids to a school if you don't agree with their beliefs and then moan about them plus expect them to change!

Ridiculous

I think many are making the point that it's CHILDREN acting out an adult ceremony that includes the need for sexual consummation that is disturbing.

You must go to some very interesting weddings if the ceremony includes consumption. Kids play doctors, but don’t go my knowledge perform heart surgery, they play fire fighters but don’t run into a burning building, they play houses without having sex and getting pregnant. And yes, my kids do all of those, in school as part of lessons.

So many form of role play are based on adult lives, and yet somehow kids manage to understand that fire fighters keep you safe without them going into a burning building, or how babies are made without them having sex.

Everyone has a different way of learning. For many children ‘role play’ is an excellent way of conveying an idea to them- by seeing and doing. Simple.

jelly, I wonder if you're being deliberately obtuse.

It's not blindingly appropriate to reinforce heteronormative patriarchy to kids in this way.

And yet there are millions of heterosexual couples who are managing to be married while treating one another as equal partners rather than man in charge, woman subservient. Some of them even got married in a church.

In terms of the relationship between the partners, marriage is what you make it. The legal framework (which is the same wherever you marry) no longer treats men and women differently as it once did.

Granted there are some Christians who still believe in male headship within marriage, but they are a tiny and shrinking minority. Please don't tar the rest of us with their brush.

I think many are making the point that it's CHILDREN acting out an adult ceremony that includes the need for sexual consummation that is disturbing.

Oh gosh, I do love this forum. Sometimes I wish we had some reality tv show following some of the posters!

Explaining what a wedding entails and that it is intended to be a lifetime commitment is fine. I'm with the OP in not being comfortable with role playing though. I would not be surprised if the children felt to be 'pretty' are chosen for the role playing.

Exact same thing at my dsd's school a couple of weeks ago. Same set up, c of e rural.

Think it's a bit weird, maybe it's a thing the church are pushing atm

This thread reminds me of how MN can feel like people live in different worlds.

Where I am, and in the school I'm in, the vast majority if parents are married. I know that many married in Church and know some had civil weddings and weddings in other religious buildings and there are some about whom I've no idea. A few are also now divorced or separated. I've never heard anyone objecting to the idea of marriage although some might. In this area, it's certainly not outdated or unpopular.

I appreciate in some areas very few people might marry. I also know that church attendance is in decline, but lots of people still like to get married in church. Even for those who choose not to marry or not marry in church, learning about it doesn't seem objectionable, especially when it is still very common place, even if not in individual areas.

Isn't role playing marriage in church a bit like role playing being a fireman, perhaps on a visit to the fire station or role playing making pizza on a visit to pizza express (another common one for infant age children) - I think all the angst about it and sense that either it is something that never happens anymore (clearly not the case) or is indoctrination is really peculiar.

It's teaching about a simple religious service which children can relate to and many will have attended. Acting it out is like acting out a Chinese dragon dance or what people do when they go to the shops. It's something which is on the curriculum, might be taught with a visit included to 'bring it to life' and might or might not include role play as a form of learning. Later in yr4 many children will have a day devoted to India involving dressing up and perhaps some kind of visit and role play. Later children will visit a synagogue and might do some role play. It's all a similar kind of thing.

jelly, I wonder if you're being deliberately obtuse.

And I wonder if you’re deliberately looking for offence. I can’t see how children role playing a wedding somehow leads to thoughts of sexual consummation.

We have had a number of family weddings, recently my kids are very interested in the whole thing and have been playing bride and groom complete with dress, veil and kilt for the groom. I don’t for one minute think anything sexual into that - they’re learning about the world around them.

The funny things people get worked up about on mumsnet.

I haven't RTFT but confused by the whole "sent my dc to CofE school when I disagree with their traditions and values".

YABU.

jelly, the original point about consummation isn't mine (although I do agree with its sentiment).

ZenNudist, the OP has had to say it several times, but: she has no other school option in her area.

Actually the OP said this school was the most convenient, not her only choice.

I agree that the OP said she chose this school because it was the only one she wouldn’t have to drive to. That’s convenience not necessity.

The reason I don't like this sort of thing with such young children is that they take everything at that age as being the default age. Churches love when children are introduced to religious concepts at a young age as they are less able to question and will just accept something as standard. By role playing a wedding in a church you plant a seed of association that getting married is a religious thing, presided over by a vicar/priest etc, in a church

I’m not sure it’s the cutch thing or any of the religious aspect at all which bothers me. It’s getting the kids to say adult vows to each other and pretend to be in love with each other. It’s just weird. It’s different if kids choose to role play - after all that’s their free will. But to make them do this is just odd.

Ffs bride doesn’t say “obey” any more.... yawn. Get over it, Yabu to call it creepy, kids aren’t creepy.

My Hindu DH went to a CoE school and used to go to church with his classmates an teachers and take parts in nativity and activities. Never bothered my ILs, and he was never "indoctrinated" (if that was the school's intention they failed miserably).

If you object to the element of patriarchy you perceive in the CoE wedding you must be aware that most of wedding traditions around the world do have the same flaw.

"There is no discussion of weddings in other faiths at all."
Hmm... Pretty sure that there has to be

"It's another sorry attempt by the Church of England to reinforce gender stereotypes and indoctrinate youngsters that marriage only happens between a male and a female."
Just because this example fits that it doesn't mean that they're saying it's the ONLY way it can happen.

It is a Christian school.It will have at one time or another been given to the LEA by the church on the condition that they provide an education of Christian character and will have diocesan inspections every few years to make sure that is what is happening.

Churches love when children are introduced to religious concepts at a young age as they are less able to question and will just accept something as standard.

Surely that’s about upbringing though, my two accept nothing as standard, even at a very young age they question everything and tbh that’s more my experience of children personally and professionally. I particularly had great fun explaining some of the rituals around death and mourning to little people who questioned everything - which does make you realise how odd some of our traditions are.

My kids know that weddings, marriages and relations come in all shapes and sizes, because we have all kinds of relationships in our family and friendship groups, heterosexual, homosexual, married, living together, living apart and very committed, mixed race couples etc etc. They’ve been to huge expensive white weddings and wee small civil ceremonies and know at the end of it two people are married regardless.

An hour of play acting a marriage in church is going to have to go some to overcome their lived experience of marriage and relationships. Of all the things I’d get my knickers in a twist over, this doesn’t hit the radar.

A lot of people are stuck with superstition-based schools, though. Some areas have very few schools, and if the only one within reasonable distance is peddling imaginary friends, you are out of options (given that a lot of people cannot simply up and move house.) But then, I don't hold with superstition-based schools anyway: some are good schools run by decent, open-minded heads, some are utter disasters. Insisting on weird rituals is no guarantee of a good education.