DH refusing to consider moving - AIBU?

[JoannaDeeds]

DH and I live in London. He is from here, I am from Wales. We met here. We live in an expensive area where he was brought up in a rented two bedroom fourth floor flat (no lift) with 18 month old twins. As you can imagine it's very difficult.

I am not working and haven't been since DTs were born. He is a building contractor and has been struggling for work. We can't afford to buy here or rent anything larger. I want to move to wales as we could afford a four bedroom house with a garden. Work would be harder for him to find but he isn't working much here anyway and for what we pay in rent it would be less than a mortgage on a nice house.

All of his friends and family are here, the majority of mine are in wales. The schools in our area are poor. Wales are better. We are at an impasse and he won't discuss moving. I don't know whether or not to push it but I feel so trapped in a small flat with young children. AIBU?

House prices almost the same and even less work, even if he had a long history of continual employment

Sorry, but house prices in London and Wales are definitely not “almost the same”. Unless it costs £900k to £1.5 million to buy a three bedroom house in Wales? I don’t think so. (And I’m not even talking central London with those prices!)

Sorry no lift...it does sound very hard. I can only think that at 18 months it may get a bit easier when they can both walk so that is something I suppose. Mine soon learnt to crawl up the stairs.

But 4 full floors though? I don’t think going up and down 4 floors is something my 3 year old would want to do very often!

I don’t think the need to move is in question. Or it shouldn’t be.
There does need to be some compromise about where though. He (rightly) shouldn’t be expected to live his life somewhere he doesn’t want to be and hasn’t chosen. He needs accept that moving is essential now and you chose together where in the UK to raise your family taking into account where you can get work, schools, everything.

My DH and I met in London (and still live here with children). Neither of us are from London originally. I can’t imagine either of us being prepared to go back to where the other one came from to settle however there are other parts of the UK that we both like and have agreed we would/ could move to if the time ever came to leave London.

The problem with this is that moving to a place where you know no one and have no support, with twins, is a bad idea. We have no family support where we live and it’s really hard.

I can completely understand his reluctance. London is great, it has everything you could possibly need and it’s also his hometown so it’s where he’s most comfortable. You’re asking him to up sticks and live somewhere completely different to London. Not as convenient, as bustling and not as familiar either.

I also understand your perspective. You want to buy rather than rent, pay less for your own home, have somewhere bigger and not have to schlep up four flights of stairs () with toddlers.

I can’t see much of a compromise here aside from perhaps finding a middle ground. Not London or Wales, somewhere in between?

They certainly are not comparable to London.
500k would get you a 5 bed with sea views in cardigan bay as an expensive option. 167.5k would get you a three bed terrace in cardigan. 60k for a three bed in Blaenau. 125k four bed in Pontypridd. 105k for a three bed in Cardiff.

If those are London prices it suddenly got cheap

My job pays less than childcare for twins

Not if he's looking after them. If he's out of work for extended periods, would you earn more over the course of the year than he does? In which case it makes sense for him to do the SAHD role and you to go to work.

That would also have the useful side-effect of showing him what it's like to be trapped in the flat all day every day with no way to take the twins outside.

*Not if he's looking after them. If he's out of work for extended periods, would you earn more over the course of the year than he does? In which case it makes sense for him to do the SAHD role and you to go to work.

That would also have the useful side-effect of showing him what it's like to be trapped in the flat all day every day with no way to take the twins outside.*

This with bells on

I agree with others. You go and get a job. He can look after the twins.

He will soon understand where you’re coming from.

It doesn't sound likely that you can manage a deposit, so how realistic is the idea of buying a property anyway?

We have no family support where we live and it’s really hard.

I know it is - I have two young children (at home with both of them at the moment) and both sets of families live 5+ hours away and we see them every few months. Actually this is typical of a lot of the young families I know who live in London. But nothing (and I mean nothing!) would make me move back to where either of us come from.
It’s a long term decision because moving again when your kids are in school and settled I would imagine would be disruptive. Where do you want to be in 5 years? 10 years? Where can you imagine being happy? Where do you want to put down roots?
If I needed to be near parents for a short period because I couldn’t cope that would be one thing but the OP is talking about buying property.

We moved (still within London but a more family friendly area) when my first was just turned 1 and it was very much a case of - this is a long term decision because this will be where all our kids are born and where they go to school and we don’t want to make the wrong decision. I’d rather things be hard for a year or two to be happy as a family long term.

I absolutely thinks she needs to move but I don’t think that it’s a given that when you commit to someone you commit to moving back to their home town.

Whether you are being unreasonable or not I very much doubt the move will ever happen with his agreement.

If you move to wales it doesnt work out and you seperate, the kids are tied to wales. He is tied to Wales and seperate from friends and family.

If you seperate now, he can prevent the children from leaving London, hang on until there at nursery and its even harder.

Its a no brainer from his perspective. Why on earth would he agree?

Additionally the move out of London for the kids argument doesnt necessarily hold up. Access to public transport, culture and history can he hugely beneficial to kids. Access to specialist pediatric medical care can be rubbish outside of London.

All that said, if youre really unhappy, if you really want to go you have to do it now, quick and on the sly. Get them and you established quick, nursery home and dictors. Rebt initially. Tbh id go down on a two week holiday with family and love it so much that you stay. Your relationship will probably be over in six months if you do but you end up in Wales not London. If the relationship doesnt last in London you risk being stuck in London.

He is BU for refusing to consider not living in London. You are BU for wanting him to move to Wales.

You’d be better off looking in one of the cheaper areas of the Home Counties where he can still commute for work. I took a fair bit of persuasion from DH to move out of London but I wouldn’t live in Wales for anybody!

Well, relationships are about compromise aren't they? His desire to stay does not "outrank" your desire to move somewhere more affordable. If he won't leave London, what is his suggestion to address the issues you face? In my view, if he won't consider leaving London then he does need to come up with an alternative that addresses your concerns.

That said, I don't understand those saying "you met in London, you live in London, therefore you must stay in London forevermore". Just because you met in x place, doesn't mean you can never, ever suggest moving elsewhere if circumstances change. And circumstances have changed- they have twins and current housing not working for the family but they cannot afford to move somewhere more suitable in there current area. So they could move to a cheaper part of London, move out of London- and if moving out of London, why not Wales?

What about Scotland? He wouldn't struggle for work here, and it would fit the bill in every other way.

You can’t force him to move to Wales.

But staying in your present flat sounds bloody terrible.

Start looking at rentals in different parts of London. Insist you’ll be visiting them on a fact-finding basis.

You feel stuck and you need to unstick yourself. Your DH feels attacked and is digging his heels in. Start smaller and plan to move more locally.

OP as a starting point you need to get out of that flat. Tell him bluntly that you cannot manage the stairs with the DC. Leave him to struggle with it on his own a few times as he seems prepared to leave you manage.

Did he grow up in a 4th floor flat with no lift? If not, why does he think it is OK for you and the DC?

Ask him why he is fine with you having to struggle?

BUT don’t suggest moving to Wales as a solution. Ask him what sort of home he wants his DC to grow up in and how is he going to achieve it. Ask him where the scooters and bikes are going to be kept? Get him to face up to the practical issues. It’s too emotional for you both at the moment and that can lead to stubborn and knee jerk reactions.

He sounds sensible
He really really doesn't. Did you read the part where op can only get the twins in and out the flat if dh or a neighbour is available to help? And otherwise she is stuck in the flat unable to leave? That is a crazy situation. Clearly they need a more suitable home, whether they can afford it in London or need to move elsewhere (not necessarily Wales).

There will be less work in Wales
They need to do sums, but he isn't working much in London as it is and living costs high. If their living costs are so much less in wales and op can work with family childcare, it may well be financially better off to move to wales despite him earning less there.

you’ll be putting the burden of childcare on others
Which some family members are very happy to provide, and don't see as a burden. Depends on what op's family think. I know grandparents who really want to provide free childcare for their grandkids.

he won’t be happy there
Op isn't happy in London for understandable reasons, especially when she physically can't leave the flat. It also in honesty doesn't sound good for the kids - bad schools, main road outside, not near green spaces, no outdoors space.

not to mention he will have to finance it
They need to decide together. Being the (current) wage earner doesn't mean he gets to make the decision.

You chose to have children where you are now so knew what you were getting into and went ahead anyway
I really disagree with this. Things change, priorities change. We live in London with young kids and we discuss together whether to stay or move away. Lots of parents move out of London as their kids grow up, despite being very happy there before kids, it's a well trodden path. They would have planned for one baby rather than twins which might have meant op's wages would be greater than childcare, and the presumably didn't expect her dh to have less work available, so they would have had greater income. With this they could have lived in a more suitable London home eg flat with lift near good schools and park, which could have made all the difference.

Your current living situation sounds dreadful and I think your dh is being selfish to not consider moving somewhere, although there may be better options than wales.

I live in London, in a flat, no lift and a small child. If we want to go to the park we just walk there, like we would if we wanted to go to the shop etc.

Yes property is cheaper in Wales, but pay is also lower, he won’t be able to charge the same for his time in Wales compared to London. Places with lower property prices have lower average incomes, so less likely to be able to afford home improvements etc.

Childcare costs in London aren’t significantly higher than many places in the UK, I pay less per hour for my sons nursery than colleagues from elsewhere. I have a colleague who lives in Bridgend at the weekends who pays quite a bit more than me.

If you’re combined income doesn’t provide enough for nursery, rent, utilities etc in London it is unlikely to in Wales. Family may say they are willing to provide care, but realistically many won’t provide longtime care in the long run.

Have you completed a full financial plan, have a few months wages put buy to cover time to find a job etc?

Staying where you are is ridiculous, I'm surprised he can't see it. There must be a compromise, somewhere new that you can go.

Moving is more that just looking at a wold map and deciding what makes more sense in regards to housing and work. There are a lot of personal and emotional aspects.

I think he is being unreasonable for not wanting to move from your inconvinentflat to somewhere close to London. He is not being unreasonable for not wanting to move to Wales. Did you discuss that this was an option when you got married? The Wales is not the issue, but if it wasn't discussed before, it feel like you are going back in the "agreement" in a way. I really wouldn't be happy if in your husbands shoes when this was presented to me as an option. Locations tend to be dealbreakers in relationships. I hope.you manage to find a solution.

What LannieDuck said.

It's not an issue for him because it's not affecting him.

I live in London, in a flat, no lift and a small child. If we want to go to the park we just walk there, like we would if we wanted to go to the shop etc.

A small child. One.

It would be helpful if OP could tell us what area of Wales she wanted to live in. Could give more accurate advice then

Wow has he always been this stubboern-no u dont have to move to wales but wont even move to the suburbs for the sake of you and your kids

Call his bluff say youre going with or without him-then just go

live in London, in a flat, no lift and a small child. If we want to go to the park we just walk there, like we would if we wanted to go to the shop etc*

When I had one small child in a flat I used a sling and took the stairs. When I had two small children I always used a pram and took the lift. How is op supposed to carry a pram and two babies up four flights of stairs? The op says that there are no parks or green spaces nearby