To worry about the resilience of adults

[MyKingdomForACaramel]

Am not trying to come across as goady or insensitive but have seen a distinct upturn recently both irl and online of adults not being able to deal with, what are essentially day to day life/set backs in a rational way -what was once a mishap is now a crisis.

To be clear I’m not talking l about those suffering with mental health issues (I have had my own), but more generally

I don't think this is limited to the younger generation though : i've managed people in their 20s 30s and 40s, and the worst case of someone who was just bad at being an adult was a 42 year old man - a very intelligent chap, but unable to get his head around the fact that no-one else was going to do his expenses claims for him, that he had to remember to ask for leave sufficiently in advance . To the point where he called in sick to explain that handling an expense claim that he forgot to submit (and therefore had to pay late fees) along with the fact that he had to move his holidays because he didn't book the leave in time, left him so stressed that he had to rest for a day.

Now we have a fairly lenient sick leave policy, so he got his day off, but when he came back, he asked me what the company or myself was going to do to make these processes easier on him, as not to stress him out any further...I was honestly gobsmacked

I've struggled with workplace stress loads over the years. Wanting to swing the car off the road on the way in, self harm, nausea etc. When I was TTC (not the moment, the period of time !) I kept thinking I might be pregnant but it wasn't morning sickness, it was being in work nausea. I am going through a bad patch at work so looking for other jobs, even if it means less pay. My current post has changed beyond all recognition. I just hope I'm not just trying to run away from a problem if the problem is me. But I can't change the things that upset me about work so it seems sensible to leave. I'm nearly 40. I appear to be a functional adult to the casual observer. I try not to let my fear stop me doing anything (aside from my recent decision not to stay in my current job).
One of my kids has a specific huge fear which impacts her, I really try to help her to face it and tackle it, not doing great though. I do think anxiety is just fear in the wrong context.

I agree with PP here.

The thing saying /no MH issues/ does not give you a free pass to criticise.

MH can strike at any time. Unless you are a confidant and best friend I highly suspect you are completely unaware of their history, their past, their experiences...

We live in a world where we're constantly glued to our phones, social media, TVs. It affects our sleep, we don't get enough. Our diets are poor, we need more exercise. We have people constantly telling us how we should look, how we should dress, how we should act... it's a mental health minefield.

And instead of criticising, perhaps we should be working on helping those around us. Helping them learn tools to cope with those things you clearly have a grasp on.

Mental health awareness is important.
Empathy is important.

Resilience is something you learn through hardship and experience, and shouldn't expect people to have it just because you do.

I should change that to I am a functional adult. I do all the adult things, my body just thinks I'm in distress the whole time and my brain has two tracks simultaneously - one where I brush my teeth and use moisturizer to keep reasonable attractive, one where I'm going to find a way to not exist. Which is an over the top/ sledgehammer to crack a nut solution to a few difficulties at work. But part of my brain doesn't believe me so I am constant dissonance.
Not sure if that makes sense to others. Or what to do about it (I'm drugged up, had my batch of counseling, have excellent strategies to prevent /manage panic attacks). It doesn't seem to be curable, just something I will always have to manage until I'm old enough to retire.
My dad was similar. He never found a solution but I don't know if he was ever suicidal, he wouldn't have told me if he had been.

I had some really good advice on here about my DS2, who is naturally really good at academics and sport and didn't have much experience of basically just not being the best.

He now does a sport which challenges him and he often loses at. It has honestly been great for his resilience and work ethic. He has learned to pick himself up and work harder next time. And he's learned that, even if he tries his absolute hardest, there is likely to be someone better than him. And that's okay.

YANBU. I'm 27 and most of my friends think cooking a meal is a drama let alone anything that could actually be considered a crisis!

I do think we need to challenge our kids though, regularly expose them to situations just outside their comfort zone. I always told mine that its fine to feel a bit scared and anxious, everyone does. Just feel the fear and do it anyway.

However on Mumsnet I've often been accused of being a hard nosed, unempathetic parent. In real life my grown up kids are very happy and confident and doing well in their lives. No one would ever call them snowflakes.

Having read and seen a lot about resilience (I’d recommend watching the documentary Resilience to everyone!) I think it’s about children growing up feeling secure enough to fail or face disappointment at its milder end - and the chronic insecurity felt by children with adverse childhood experiences may make them resilient or force them into unsuitable coping strategies (drugs, alcohol etc).

I grew up with the ‘shut up and get on with it’ mindset in a lot of ways but my DM unnecessarily babying me in others (I see it as the focus was completely in the wrong direction), I shake my head at her now with the things she assumes or tries to assert and I’m 38! So I’m very independent in practical ways yet I never feel I can properly offload or share my feelings as it was never encouraged and often discouraged because my DM had a much harder time of it etc etc.

My SIL is a typical snowflake but is in mid 40s! Makes a big deal when she has to travel on public transport, go anywhere unfamiliar on her own, deal with any sort of adult emotions or situations, workplace angst etc. Appears that PIL didn’t have much of a life outwith their children so anything SIL did was a huge deal and a lot of attention given to it, now when she doesn’t get that constant praise or acknowledgement for living an everyday life she struggles.

I will also say that when I moved job recently, my replacement is the same age at which I started (25). I’ve heard they complain at work about the content of the packed lunch their mum makes for them each day!

You did have jobs to go to as all you had to do is move away from the area you lived in.

There's something wrong when people are told they have to be prepared to move anywhere to get a job though.

Wow so many interesting thoughts and opinions!

I agree OP and think we are all trying to live lives where we don't see 'anxiety' as just a normal thing, part of the human experience.

It seems like people don't want to ever experience fear (which anxiety is a form of) just because it is uncomfortable. But we only grow from discomfort. Being anxious about something has purpose, it forces us to examine the situation, problem solve and redirect our actions. It is just part of the human condition and for me now, it is like we want to erase that. And I think that has catastrophic consequences for mental health. We need to be able to handle our emotions, healthily.

I get quite a lot of judgy looks in the way I bring my kids up, as I am very much of the school - least effort required. By that I don't mean being lazy, but I totally think we over-parent our children and so I force my kids to have to make decisions about their lives and they go into places of discomfort regularly. When they get bad school reports, I don't rush to school and make sure the teachers sort it, I say "its your life and up to you how you direct it". . They have freedom to go out when they want and have from very young - this is deemed terrible parenting these days. I am a SP and work full time so often not back early, they are expected to look after themselves, cook dinner - that is seen as terrible neglect today but they are teenagers - and perfectly capable. They both have had jobs since 13 and never ask me for any money- they get it themselves (many people judge this because one is working until midnight one night a week and has school (sixth form) the next day.

When you make life too easy, you become fragile not strong, that is the issue. People have not had chance to build their resilience through hard times because they have been protected so much from them. So when something big hits it floors them, they cannot cope with their emotions. This is without all the 'rights' movements being at play in the last few decades - " I have the right to this because I am xx" really doesn't help individuals develop responsibility for their behavour and resilience to setbacks (they blame it on being victim to whatever 'right' they think they are entitled to and become bitter)

Jonathan Haidt is fantastic on this - mollycoddling does no good at all for mental health.

YANBU I am sick of people having another opinion being cast as "bullies" and "trolls", just because they don't agree with a poster.

I see non-resilient people in all generations: seriously, who hasn't met a 65 yo snowflake who goes into total meltdown if the whole world doesn't pander to his needs. But ime they are far outnumbered by the resilient and courageous people of all ages who don't attract attention because they just get on with life quietly and without drawing attention to themselves. As a university lecturer with pastoral responsibilities I am often amazed and humbled by what my young students cope with and feel privileged if I can do anything to help.

I do think young teenagers get overwhelmed with anxiety not because they are weak but because our parenting generation has done such a good job of drumming in to them that they mustn't fail ever, that they have to become the best they can, that average just isn't good enough, that they will be letting everybody down. Still feel ashamed about my ds' relief when he found out that you can actually get jobs with a D in maths: his whole school career had been so focused on the idea that "everybody" is going to demand that crucial C, and I am ashamed to say dh and I hadn't done much to counter that idea either. Is if his fault if he felt stressed about his repeated inability to get more than a D despite resitting the exam again and again?

so many early life lessons are lost - playing out on your own, getting a Saturday job, having to work things out without having parents or friends or maps or whatever at the end of a mobile.

Parents, even of young adults, have also not had to train themselves to deal with anxiety of not knowing where their children are and if they are safe. Back in the day when the DC started to go off on their first holidays abroad, be it Club 18-30 cheap package or inter-railing, you had to make do with a postcard that might arrive after they return, not constant calls and updates via social media.

also agree with posters about this atmosphere suiting commercialisation. Our innate vulnerability to feeling not good enough is bombarded with ads, industries and individuals (those awful influencers) dedicated to making money out of this. Men are reacting to this too, not just women, botox, teethwhitening, waxing etc - remove the problem instead of sitting with the discomfort of not being perfect. Meanwhile, you are relieved of your salary for doing so.

I'm actually glad to hear though that new grads are making demands of the work environment. There's a lot of fallout from the pyramid type grad schemes that squeeze people in their 20s til they are exhausted and burnt out and potentially leaving the psychopaths at the top of the pyramid.

I know people who still pack the school bags for their children aged 14

This is such an interesting example of the stuff parents do which goes in the category of over-parenting, and has the dire consequence that the children have no resilience or responsibility.

That child needs to learn to pack their own bloody bag and take the consequences if they don't. That is the only way they will learn to be responsible, and also resilient to conflict and criticism. I know it is such a stupid example but it also epitomises the over-parenting culture where parents can't bear their children to experience normal human emotions and they are not recognising the unintentional consequences of not letting them do it themselves.

The work environment does seem to have changed a lot since my day. One of mine had a civil service job that sounded quite interesting at interview and encompassed a range of tasks.

In reality he did one task all day, every day, someone else did a different task, all day every day. It was soul corrodingly boring for them all and there was a massive staff turnover.

I worked in HR 30 years ago for a large government type organisation. We had no jobs like that. It was understood that people need variety and the chance to stretch themselves a little if they want to.

I can see that young grads going into those type of soul destroying jobs can be thinking, where did it all go wrong? In our case, we had to support our son to tough it out while simultaneously looking for something better. Many of his colleagues just walked though.

I dunno Tinkly, my first full time job was 1983 as a clerk in the purchasing department of a large engineering company. All day long I ripped perforated invoices and their copies, stuck them in different trays and envelopes, it was soul destroying. I left after 6 months.

i've managed people in their 20s 30s and 40s, and the worst case of someone who was just bad at being an adult was a 42 year old man - a very intelligent chap, but unable to get his head around the fact that no-one else was going to do his expenses claims for him

I don't know what this man's background is but I can tell you I struggle to cope with any kind of formal administration. My background includes parents who beat me for the smallest thing, bullying, growing up with domestic violence, homelessness, and years of sexual abuse. I got no help for any of it, and no support. I used to go around in my early 20s really suffering immense anxiety (by anxiety I mean debilitating fear) and low self-esteem to the point it was physically painful. I felt different from everyone my age, I had no confidence to do anything they were doing. It took all my strength to apply for a job for eg. Doing something like a job interview meant being sick beforehand. Any criticism from anyone resulted in days of mental distress and feelings of intense unworthiness. Yet to others I was bright, articulate, intelligent, capable.

Fast forward today having had intensive help over the years, I'm much better, but I still struggle to do many things simple stuff. For e.g. Tax Credit renewal. The stress associated with filling the form is minimal but my brain interprets this low level stress as a threat. I literally have my heart pounding at the thought of doing it and will literally leave it until I'm forced to do it. Same with handling bills etc. I can't explain it. It's entirely irrational. I have got into very serious problems because I cannot engage with stuff I'm meant to do.

I've been to doctors and spoken to a neuro-psychologist. The verdict is my brain and central nervous system has become overly sensitised to stress. My stress base rate is higher than the average person. Stress Signals are overly amplified. I now have Central Nervous System Sensitisation and Fibromyalgia and the first thing the Rheumatologist asked me was 'Have you had a traumatic childhood' Neuro-psychologist says my brain has changed in response to trauma.

Now, contradictorily I am very capable of helping others with their stuff. I am very educated, but there was a career path I wanted to pursue and I didn't because it would require a lot of paperwork and I knew I would never handle it. Not that I'm not capable just that I would struggle everyday.

I do a very basic part time job right now which doesn't pay the bills. I feel sick at tge thought of having to get another. I keep being asked to step into a supervisory role but the extra responsibility would kill me. I'm doing a degree and the extra stress has made me ill. I have lost first grades and been capped numerous times due to having to go slower than others and stressing during exams.

I am the sort of person who people might think 'why doesn't she just pull it together' 'it's just a bit of paperwork', 'scatty person' 'away with the fairies' etc and I've had all those said to me. But my nerves are just shot to pieces and i have no tolerance. But I manage to hide it most of the time. I live with irrational fear everyday but control it with great mental effort. It's exhausting.

So am I resilient? Well yes in one way, I've survived stuff other people couldn't cope with and emerged a decent person with children doing well in university etc.

On the other hand I'm not, because normal life stresses cause me such distress they prevent me functioning normally. In addition I've had other traumas happen as an adult. At 40 I am not settled, still live pay check to pay check but am not unhappy.

I think unless you look into someone else life how can you know why they seem less resilient? And what is resilent in which context?

However I whole heartedly agree that some of it caused by the overly protective parebting we do. I also think it's increasingly important for people to have a work life balance and we definately need more kindness!

That's interesting Ellie. I started work in 1987 and was fortunate never to come across that sort of thing then (did a lot of job evaluations).

I do think young people are sold a lie regarding jobs and careers. I often say to mine, "Young Tink its called work. If it was fun then it wouldn't be called work would it?" Everyone has an expectation of an amazing job and no idea that it can take some time to work your way up to even a really interesting job. Let alone an amazing well paid one.

Great post Browngirl. It's quite sad to see so many posters simply not understanding that when anxiety gets a hold of you, all bets are off x

It seems to come as a surprise to some people that, at times, life is boring. I wonder if this is because more children are being constantly stimulated by activities rather than being left to their own devices.

There’s a lot here about jobs and graduates but I’m pondering if this isn’t part of the “unattainable goals” issue.

Jobs won’t be perfect, no jobs often don’t make you feel fulfilled every day, you might have to make a choice between doing something you love or doing a job that pays better, or working longer hours for better pay.

I’m not saying that bad company cultures or work environments are ok, but I fear that there are unrealistic expectations.

@BrownGirl22 you sound incredibly resilient to me!

I tend not to judge how people live their lives and react to things. Unless you walk a mile in their shoes, you have no clue how resilient they are.

I had a melt down about a little thing a couple of weeks ago. I have no MH issues. But I have had some pretty major really big things happened in the past couple of years. Things I had no choice but to soldier on through. If we can’t rely on the little stuff to go smoothly, the big stuff is harder to deal with.