There's no mandate for a no deal Brexit

[Cinammoncake]

It seems to me (as a remainer) that leavers didn't give their vote to a no deal Brexit. Even if say half of them might want that now, there's no mandate now to go ahead and do something so damaging to the country as this. I don't remember this outcome seeming likely around the time of the referendum, so I think people just didn't vote for that.

Yes, the nonsense talked about "respecting the outcome" is strange - no-one voted for a no deal - vanashingly few people actually knew what the consequences would be, very few gave a thought to the GFA and few knew, or even now know, what the terms of the WTO are.

Nope. It's now purely a right wing attempt at a coup in this country, with the associated rise in fascist tendencies and active racism.

No mandate whatso ever.

Well there's certainly no mandate for remaining in the EU - surely as things stand now the British people are being kept in against their will?

Pendeen a minority of the total British population might think that.

If you’re stupid enough to ask the question (Cameron) then you’re stupid enough to accept the consequences.

Whole thing is more about saving the Tory party than the country.

We are royally fucked. Currently on holiday in Canada and hoping if BloJob gets in we can claim asylum.

37% of the electorate voting to leave the EU in an advisory referendum is hardly a mandate either.

Well there's certainly no mandate for remaining in the EU - surely as things stand now the British people are being kept in against their will?

I'm interested in the leaver viewpoint - are you saying you'd rather have 'no deal' and all the economic harm and consequences now than to stay in the EU?
Let's say even 2/3rds of leavers wanted this (which I doubt) then that's still fewer people than wanted to remain.

I'd say second referendum is the only way to go now, now that we have more facts, more understanding of what it all might entail?

There wasn't a mandate for it at the time, no.

However, there appears to be an increasing mandate (Lord help us).

Also we may end up there, not because we want it, but because no one has the political ability to get a deal through that is broadly acceptable to all.

I don't know what you're supposed to do about it, it's a total fucking mess.

well the people who didn't vote obviously had no opinion, so that's irrelevant

Funny that the Scots were denied devolution in 1979 because of less than 40% of the electorate voting for it - despite 52% of those that voted voting for devolution.

Empty vessels making lots of No Deal noise.

They voted to leave. There was no option to say, “Leave unless we fail to secure a deal.” That is the risk the idiots took, isn’t it?

I think people who voted leave believed what they were told at the time of the referendum, which included things like how easy it would be and that we would leave in a managed sensible way. They voted on that basis, not on the basis of what's happening now. They weren't in possession of the full facts. Had they been told look we'll just leave with no proper plan and the country will go into recession and jobs will be lost etc etc, then they wouldn't have voted for that surely -well, not all of them!

You can’t tell us why other people voted the way they did, OP.

I’m not against a second referendum (although I am not sure I can bear much more of this pantomime) but it was pretty obvious at the time of the first one that an advantageous deal was pie in the sky. To anyone with half a brain, anyway.

There’s no clear mandate for anything. This is the real problem. If the leave win had been bigger (say 70/30 or in the sort of region) I suppose you could say the British people are so determined to leave it doesn’t matter how. But the victory was hairs breadth really. Is it really tenable to say the whole country has to be dragged into the legal, political and economic chaos if no deal because of a vote on such a slender margin?
I’m not sure. I think the resentment of those who voted for remain who are dragged into the maelstrom could have done quite worrying consequences. The Brexit lobby screams the loudest right now. They sowed the wind, they may yet reap a whirlwind.

It’s Pointless to argue about what kind of leave people where voting for as it was simple leave or remain on the ballot not leave but only if x y or z or stay but only if we can do a b or c.

Those entitled to vote that bothered to turn out leave got the majority there is no mandate to remain.

Op is right, there’s no mandate for no deal as it wasn’t asked about. There is a mandate to leave which is being obfuscated for a variety of valid and less valid reasons. It’s a mess, which won’t be improved by Boris imho.

Whatever happens, there's going to be an awful lot of disillusioned people.
I voted to Leave due to concerns about the future direction of the EU - further integration, the possibility of an EU army, the introduction of QMV on issues of national sovereignty (taxation etc) due to the passerelle clause in the Lisbon Treaty. Some obviously see these as positive things, I don't.

Quite prepared to be shot down by others but I stand by my reasons. I didn't anticipate getting a 'good deal' from the EU anyway.

I think looking back on it, there should have been at least two votes - the one which we had, and then a confirmatory one when the details of the deal had been decided, or to say do you want 'no deal' then. Or, a proper plan should have been made before the referendum. But we can't go back in time.

But I think you could safely say that people voted for what was offered to them at the time. And it was not this. Doesn't seem right at all to turn it into something completely different and now say well you voted for us, the Tory party, to just do whatever we want. And maybe even without the consent of parliament either.

Thanks for posting youngeurope as it's interesting to hear these views. Can I ask you

1. Are you happy with no deal
2. Do you think all those who voted to leave wanted no deal?

The two-vote idea was mooted by Jacob Reece-Mogg before this farce begun - like many on the brexit side he appears to have forgotten this.

I dislike referendums - suspect I’m not alone now - but it is right to say we should have planned for two. As it is, we e done half the job, and parliamentary democracy is not equipped to fix things.

I find all of this extremely frustrating 😤 The country voted to leave so we must leave. I for one was fully informed and aware of what this means. However anyone who has ever attempted to negotiate a settlement of any type will understand the reason we are screwed is because we keep telling everyone we won't leave with no deal - our negotiating power is lost at that point.

the possibility of an EU army

Shame you didn’t read the relevant clauses of the Lisbon Treaty.

just noticed the ref to passerelle clauses - you WILL know that these are dependent on unanimous votes from the member states? It's a simple technique to avoid bureaucractic hold ups on stuff that would be agreed anyways. I'd suggest you are being opaque or deceptive. Or simply repeating what you have been told to.

European army? Again, veto exists for any sich pan-european measure.

I do have to laugh at those saying that no deal has to be an option to maintain our negotiating position. It shows how they don’t understand the first thing about the legal reality. We’ve given notice to leave - if no deal is done before the leave date, we leave with no deal, as night follows day, unless we postpone leaving, and that can’t be done indefinitely.
Sheer inertia takes us to no deal. You can’t take it off the table. It is the fucking table. We might not have the wit to grasp this but the EU most assuredly does.