There's no mandate for a no deal Brexit

[Cinammoncake]

It seems to me (as a remainer) that leavers didn't give their vote to a no deal Brexit. Even if say half of them might want that now, there's no mandate now to go ahead and do something so damaging to the country as this. I don't remember this outcome seeming likely around the time of the referendum, so I think people just didn't vote for that.

However anyone who has ever attempted to negotiate a settlement of any type will understand the reason we are screwed is because we keep telling everyone we won't leave with no deal - our negotiating power is lost at that point.

God what utter bollocks

Anyone who ever attempted to negotiate a settlement will realise that a) our position is pretty weak to begin with, we have barely any leverage and b) holding out ‘no deal’ as a bargaining point is ridiculous because everyone knows no deal would hurt us far more than them.

We’re screwed because Leave promised unicorns and can’t deliver them. And they knew that all along, but won’t be honest with the electorate.

We've been her before. No deal ISN'T the table. The future relationship is the table. It can be managed in a number of ways, no deal being one. Revoke the whole thing is another, and avoid the national self-harming.

Revoke the whole thing is another, and avoid the national self-harming

But politically speaking, how could that be done? No Tory government would do that frankly.

Legally, no deal is the table. You might wish for any number of political developments. But there are certain inexorable legal consequences to the position we are in. There is, by contrast, nothing that means any new future relationship arrangements have to be agreed. That is pie inthe sky. You might get it, you might not.
I do wish basic legal reasoning was taught in our schools. I’m not sure we’d be in this mess if we were.

I agree with the OP simply because I spent a lot of time on the FB pages of my local newspapers (I voted Remain but live in a Leave area) both before and for a while after the vote, and the majority of the comments immediately before and after very much echoed the 'easy deal' narrative being pitched at the time - lots of talk of Norway+ and 'no reason why we can't get a deal like Switzerland's' etc. It was only since May's deal was repeatedly voted down that the prevailing tone shifted to 'out at any cost' among a higher proportion of leavers.

I appreciate that's anecdotal but it's my observation after seeing literally months-worth of posts, and I'd be very surprised if my area was unique in that regard.

And... in other news... man puts salt and vinegar on his fish and chips; a small boy found a snail and a young woman went up 2 belts in her JuJuitsu grading.

And still people post about Brexit as though either side has The Right of it! STOP IT FOR FUCKS SAKE!

Instead of haranguing people here go out and piss off your MP - you know, the one person you know who could possibly do something about it!

Instead of haranguing people here go out and piss off your MP - you know, the one person you know who could possibly do something about it!

Why do you assume we're not?

It's the biggest thing to happen to our country since WWII and no deal will be disastrous for some of us. Brexit in any form will be disastrous for some of us. Woohoo for you if you're not one of them...feel free to run along to start a thread about finding snails and leave us to discuss the things that matter to us.

@CuriousaboutSamphire , I've had a written promise from my MP that he would not vote for a No Deal Brexit.

The vote was 52:48. That, by definition, is a soft Brexit vote. If you were taking 100 people on holiday and they voted 52 to go abroad, 48 to stay in UK, you'd go abroad, to France or Holland. Or Belgium. You wouldn't take them to Papua New Guinea.

The 52% who voted to leave were assured by the leaders of the leave campaign that we would be offered a fabulous deal. They'd be falling over themselves to give it to us.

So the only mandate we have is for a soft Brexit with a great deal. If the govt can't give the people what they voted for, we need to have another vote with the new reality. Remain, or leave with a shit deal or no deal at all.

I voted to leave. We want a free trade agreement like the one we were offered in 2018 but TM wanted closer alliance for some stupid reason.
No deal is only the absolute last option. Only if we can't come to any other arrangement. It is in the best interest of everyone to work something out but the EU are much better at playing chicken.

Why do you assume we're not? A few reasons

Many don't bother and openly say so, along with their spurious reaons why they don't

To remind people that they can.

To remind people that they should have done so ages ago, like bellini I did! Mine's a bit of a weasel though, he had aspirations for PM!

Because all the Brexit posts go the same way and it furthers nothing.

It was and still is a total shit show on all sides NOBODY is right, or any less wrong than anyone else. Just here Remainers shout loudest. That is different in other places, internet or in real life.

Nowehree seems to have a well mannered actual exhcnage of ideas. Just demands for whatver 'proof' either side deems important.

It just continues the total waste of time, money and effort the whole thing has been... and will be for decades to come!

The vote was 52:48. That, by definition, is a soft Brexit vote. If you were taking 100 people on holiday and they voted 52 to go abroad, 48 to stay in UK, you'd go abroad, to France or Holland. Or Belgium. You wouldn't take them to Papua New Guinea.

well put

Nowehree seems to have a well mannered actual exhcnage of ideas
I would say this thread is so far

I have written to my MP, who is a remainer anyway, but wanted to have a debate. Genuinely. Unless all leavers wanted no deal then it stands to reason that the majority of the country will probably not want it and there is no mandate. It's not about 'sides' and I think we need to let go of that notion as a country to go forwards.

I am just sick of the whole thing. Fed up of not being able to plan anything because I don't know if we're going to have a no deal Brexit, whether the economy is going to be (even more) trashed and whether I'll have any work/money. And although flights etc will still operate how on earth do you find out if they were on the 2018 timetable and therefore covered by the arrangements?

Can we please just forget the whole thing and actually get on with resolving the problems in the country (and more widely, like the environment).

And OP I agree there is no mandate for no deal. Leavers were clear there would be a deal and no sudden exit.

People who voted leave are not as stupid as remainders seem to think, yes a deal would be good but they knew leaving with no deal was an option. The reason we are in the mess now is simply down to Mps who don’t want to believe the public knew what they were doing when voting leave, after all how dare they do that, MPs know best and stay in we must

If ERG has backed the PM we would be out by now.

that is an incredibly simplistic analysis of the current political situation. In parliament you have some people - not that many, in truth - who want to stop Brexit outright. You have some who don’t want it but think we should take the deal in the table as it achieves Brexit without crashing the car. You have some who would reject any deal purely because so deep is their hatred of the EU that anything it agrees to is contaminated. And you gave labour which believes in nothing and is attempting to play the situation to advantage ( and doing a shite job of it).
In short, you have no consensus, which is exactly the position in the country at large. You want to force through the biggest and most disruptive peace time change to governance against that background? Good luck with that. Hope your escape plans are in good order. There may come a time when resentment of those who think like you gets out of control.

That was to cloemol not Bellini. I think we are heading for some quite major unrest in this country. The implosion of the Tory party might be the least of it.

It's the biggest thing to happen to our country since WWII

But nothing has actually happened yet apart from scare mongering remainers buying all the canned food.

Isn't there a specific Brexit board for these threads?

@VapeVamp12 , plenty of canned food in shops near me. Do you have a problem with people buying extra for their pantry? Who made you the Asda police?

I agree but unfortunately I don't think that's going to matter.

Lol buy all the canned food you like, I really don't care about Brexit. It's so boring now.

The nation apologises for boring you with grown up things.

The reason we are in the mess now is simply down to Mps who don’t want to believe the public knew what they were doing when voting leave, after all how dare they do that, MPs know best and stay in we must

I think it's more that MPs are supposed to act in the best interests of the country which No Deal very definitely isn't (and even a proportion of those who would usually put party above country at any costs can see that - though sadly not all, obviously) hence the attempts to find a marginally less self-harming way of leaving.

they knew leaving with no deal was an option

Did they? At the time I went to a few legal seminars where the different scenarios were considered. At no point was no deal even mentioned - WTO rules yes but not just crashing out without honouring legal obligations. It was universally thought that at the very least we would stay in the/a customs union. EEA/SM membership was taken as a given.

And as I have said again and again on here, the Leave Campaign's literature made clear that we would not leave suddenly without a deal.