There's no mandate for a no deal Brexit

[Cinammoncake]

It seems to me (as a remainer) that leavers didn't give their vote to a no deal Brexit. Even if say half of them might want that now, there's no mandate now to go ahead and do something so damaging to the country as this. I don't remember this outcome seeming likely around the time of the referendum, so I think people just didn't vote for that.

ContinuityError

Feel free to read through the treaties and see the restrictions that are being put upon the veto.

Its there for you to see.

No deal is just slamming the front door behind us and then realising our keys, handbag and suitcase are still inside!

Yeah

@Cinammoncake thats right. I imagined a norway type of deal. I was overconfident in our ability to negotiate an acceptable deal. My views on the EU had mostly been formed by negative media over the past 40 years but the past three years has made me realise the truth. I have a feeling that many people's views have changed since the referendum and the democratic thing to do would be to have a second referendum. If the majority still voted for leave then I would accept that. However, I think there would need to be options in a referendum to determine what kind of Brexit people want

BoneyBackJefferson

Nope - doesn’t override the “unanimous” requirement or the necessity to ratify in accordance with constitutional requirements.

I agree girlsblouse
It seems the fairest thing all round. If over half the country does want no deal and all that means then so be it. But why not find out and get a mandate before we take such a massive step. I think there must be lots like you. It didn't seem like negotiating an acceptable deal would be beyond the wit of our country to be fair. Who'd have known it'd turn out like this.

ContinuityError

I said restrictions that are being put upon.

You are arguing a different point.

It seems the fairest thing all round. If over half the country does want no deal and all that means then so be it

Agreed. Another referendum with - Remain vs No Deal terrifies me. But I’m thinking it has to happen.

We need another vote based on proper information with rigorous electoral standards enforced.

For the Scottish Indyref, at least the SNP tried to produce a proper, costed plan of what an independent Scotland would be like even if the oil reserves bit was wide of the mark. It was a bit rose tinted not like the outright disdain for the truth that there is with Brexit.

Cinammoncake exactly. It's been 3 years since the referendum. Normally we have general elections every 4 or 5 years to ask if the electorate has changed its mind about the party in government. 3 years is not far off that so why not ask the electorate if it has changed its mind about Brexit now that we have more information about the consequences. I wrote to some politicians asking them to support a second referendum because I do believe there are more people like me. I think the NI border issue affected our negotiating strength but I don't recall much warning about this in the Brexit debate in 2016. The past 3 years was not something I had imagined would happen. It has been chaos. I don't have faith in our politicians anymore

BoneyBackJefferson

I’m replying to your point about removing the veto in direct reference to an EU army.

The Treaty of Lisbon requires members to act unanimously. To change this would require changing the Treaty.

Think it’s you that is arguing about changes to the veto in other areas - not me.

ContinuityError

I’m replying to your point about removing the veto in direct reference to an EU army.

And completely ignore that I said that it was being replaced with a voting system which is not in opposition to your unanimous point.

So there is no point to argue.

FFS.

The “unanimous” requirement is not being replaced by “a vote based restriction” in respect of an EU defence force.

So yeah, there is a point to argue.

So yeah, there is a point to argue.

The voting restriction on the EU army is that it has to be unanimous on other issues not so much, either way the veto is being restricted.

But you go for it, you have the floor.

Yup, the floor is the Lisbon Treaty would need to be amended for an EU army to be formed without unanimity amongst the members.

Which is the only thing I was pointing out.

But go ahead - fill yer boots on any of the other things that I categorically wasn’t discussing.

ContinuityError

Get a grip.

So I am not allowed to explain my point?

No wonder that this topic never gets very far.

Anyway the floor is yours.

Boney I’ll refer you to your post of 17:54 today where you quoted restrictions on the veto in response to another poster saying vetos exist for pan European measures such as an EU army.

I haven’t at any point said that the veto is not being restricted, just that it doesn’t apply to Article 42.

So - please feel free to explain your point and how it directly relates to Article 42 as you were implying.

The floor is yours ...

*Your post of 17:51 (not 17:54)

ContinuityError

I haven't implied anything,

I stated that the veto was being restricted and being replaced by a voting system.

This was linked to a post saying that we still a veto.

As with you I am replying part of a post, the bit about the veto, not the EU army.

But feel free to read into what you like.

Yeah, you did imply that the veto could be lost on the formation of an EU defence force.

But feel free to carry on with your whataboutery.

ContinuityError

But feel free to carry on with your whataboutery.

And you feel free to ignore my explanations and circling back to the EU defence force.

I’m not circling back about anything.

MrPan stated European army? Again, veto exists for any sich pan-european measure.

You replied: The use of the veto is not only being restricted but essentially phased out.

So I’d be happy to hear how your reply to MrPan recognises the fact that that the any moves towards the creation of an EU defence force needs to be “unanimous”?

John Curtice has written interesting articles on this. It seems the majority of Leave voters do want no deal and, anecdotally, everyone I know who voted Leave was voting for no deal. They feel the focus on a deal has always come from Remain voters.

They feel the focus on a deal has always come from Remain voters.

And yet the official Leave campaign prior to the Referendum promised a deal in its literature.