To leave my baby in the car?

[SeeWhoRustsFirst]

OK - I know your first thought - I am being U. Bear with me.

On the way back from playgroup today I stopped at a village shop to use the cashpoint. The parking spaces are directly along the outside wall, the cashpoint is about twelve paces away but just around the corner of the building. Owing to a) the fact that baby had just finally gone to sleep and b) the fact that the two cars either side were parked so badly I could barely get my doors open, I decided to leave baby in the car. I knew there was no queue for the machine, and I only wanted to get some cash. (ie. not top up my phone, or check my balance, or nip into the shop for anything.. etc). I was around the corner almost certainly less than a minute.

On my return, TWO people had a go at me. One just said 'it was dangerous' and one said 'someone could have snatched baby through the window'. (The front window was slightly less than half open, the back window next to the car seat was closed).

So go on Mumsnet - how was I unreasonable? Do normal people actually believe the world is filled with very speedy baby-stealing contortionists? I drove away feeling pretty confused, and quite upset really.

It isn't about the risk in this particular situation - what you did was probably low risk (although there was a case of a car in similar circumstances stolen in Ireland a few years back with a child strapped in the back)

It is about the fact that if any normal person passes a car with an unaccompanied baby strapped inside, that person should wait to make sure an adult comes back within a few minutes. Babies die in cars every single year not because a parent went around the corner for a few minutes but because their parent genuinely forgot. Happens in the US regularly and there was a terribly tragic case in ireland a couple of years ago.

The person walking past the car has no way of knowing whether you have genuinely forgotten your child or are taking the slight risk of leaving them so they have to stop what they are doing to make sure your child is ok. No, they couldn't just presume and walk on. Imagine if you did that and then later hear that the parent came back 2 hours later to discover a dead child?

So you were thoughtless and selfish and I don't really blame them for having a go.

OP - ''I drove away feeling pretty confused, and quite upset really.''

Why upset and confused? You seem perfectly confident in your own ideas.

And why are you arguing with Jellybeansincognito who has answered your thread asking for reasons why people might not do it? You wanted the discussion - but she gets the PA ''thanks for your opinion ....''

Are you really that dumb @SeeWhoRustsFirst ?

So op, it’s not ok to leave a child if they’re awake but if they’re asleep that’s fine?

Logic? 🤷‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️

It's fine OP.

Pallisers, you make good points. I personally think thoughtless and selfish is going rather far, but alright. And they can't have been waiting for me to return for more than a minute, since I wasn't gone for more than a minute, so not really an inconvenience. But you're right, that's probably why they said something, and I'm glad they were looking out. I was simply a bit taken aback that, once it was clear I'd only been a minute, they continued to have a go at me.

Our perception of risk is so cultural. I think it's denmark where parents leave babies in prams outside stores/restaurants while they shop/have a meal. It just doesn't occur to them that a kidnapper/lion is going to come along and steal/maul their baby because the chances of this happening are infinitesimal. That might seem extremely dangerous but it really isn't. We need to rethink our attitude towards risk in the UK and US because it's highly damaging to children and parent's alike.

I think their's an anti-feminist angle as well, but I'm not sure what it is as haven't had time to think it through, but I've seen comments like "well, you shouldn't have had children if you weren't prepared to give every second of your day/every thought it your brain to watching them" so many times. If there's that expectation on motherhood then that doesn't allow for mothers to be people in their own right as well as mothers. Something to think about I think, especially once you realise that this worry/aversion to risk is a social construct.

Oh it’s fine Laiste these threads always go the same way.

I’m currently amused at the fact it’s ok to leave a sleeping child but not an awake one, like the child’s awareness makes a bloody difference 😅🤦🏼‍♀️

sorry OP, I wasn't clear. I do put the bins out when the kids are asleep. the point I was trying to make was that me doing that would probably be seen as ok by most people because its a normal household job. but even though going to the corner shop from my old flat would have taken less time, I think most people would have frowned upon it because it was "going out". Hope that is clearer!

A child that's awake is significantly more likely to get itself into a dangerous situation than a child that's asleep - if you think they aren't, I can only presume you spend the whole time they nap intermittently staring at them?

The person walking past the car has no way of knowing whether you have genuinely forgotten your child or are taking the slight risk of leaving them so they have to stop what they are doing to make sure your child is ok. No, they couldn't just presume and walk on. Imagine if you did that and then later hear that the parent came back 2 hours later to discover a dead child?

What I'd do in this situation is look around, and say "is this your baby?". Maybe take a few steps to look around the corner and see if there is a cash point and ask anyone there.

I do this all the time when I see toddlers walking alone for instance, on the street or in Tesco. Look around to find the likely parent and ask. Not get in a huff about it assuming the parents are negligent becauset he child isn't on a lead.

YABU, for all the very good reasons already given and dismissed by you.

ah @GaryWilmottsTeeth I get you I know, all a matter of psychology/relativity sometimes isn't it.

Go to YouTube and google 'car stolen with baby in car seat'

There was one I remember particularly who stole and drove off knowing baby was in the back. Baby dropped at a health centre nearby and all fine. Worth it though??

I’m currently amused at the fact it’s ok to leave a sleeping child but not an awake one, like the child’s awareness makes a bloody difference

but presumably it can make a difference depending on the age of the child e.g. a sleeping 2yo is less likely to get themselves into trouble than an awake one if you leave it alone for a minute?

If you wouldn’t leave your child awake to go get some cash then you shouldn’t be leaving your sleeping child to do that either.

Unless your child has a timer floating about their head counting down the seconds until they wake up? They can wake up at any point.

Would you like waking up in a car all alone?

@GaryWilmottsTeeth children can wake up at any point, if the child could be getting themselves into some trouble whilst leaving them in the car for a minute they shouldn’t be left at all.

What I'd do in this situation is look around, and say "is this your baby?". Maybe take a few steps to look around the corner and see if there is a cash point and ask anyone there.

yeah but you'd still be doing something - not just walking by. The OP didn't put her baby in danger really but I just don't think it is on to leave a baby in a car obviously unattended (petrol forecourts are different).

I would do the same. It helps that I have tinted windows so passing nosey parkers cant see my baby 😉
Incidentally i have twice nearly been run over in petrol station forecourts...yet noone has ever crashed into my parked car hence leaving him in the car then too!!

how is waking in a car any different to waking in a cot for heaven's sake?

but yes, I agree jelly beans, if you wouldn't do it when they're awake then don't do it asleep - EXCEPT. if the child is in a cot, asleep and can't get out of it (eg.) and you go to put the bins out, then that is surely different to leaving the child (eg.) on the living room floor, awake, and you go to put the bins out. So my point is, that a level of risk can vary depending whether the child is asleep or awake. I'm not sure whether that's actually relevant to my OP but anyway, perhaps we are generally in more agreement than it would seem.

I had this dilemma earlier as needed to get petrol for the car and wasn't sure if it was right to leave baby in car while I paid at till. I thought ok, since car would be locked and I could see the car from the shop, but you do hear of stories in the news of cars being stolen/rolling down hills with kids in (not sure if they are real though).

Didnt get petrol in the end as OH assured me we have enough for my short journey (wish me luck). I was just going to take baby in with me though, even though the faff of strapping him in again would piss off the person behind me!

Op I would/have/will continue to do exactly the same thing you did!
I once put baby in the pram next to my car then leaned into the car to get my handbag which I'd forgotten and some passing lady started shouting 'there is a baby here alone' at the top of her voice!! I was like 'eh that's mine thanks' haha!

Well the child is strapped in to a car seat and shouldn’t be able to get out of it, if they’re able to that’s entirely a different issue.

So yeah if you wouldn’t leave your child awake in their car seat and nip out then of course it’s unreasonable to do so just because they’re asleep. The variables are the same, no? Being awake/ asleep doesn’t change much does it. You’re still leaving a child in a car out of view.

some passing lady started shouting 'there is a baby here alone' at the top of her voice!!

Ha! probably me.

It only takes seconds to kidnap a child.
The chances of it actually happening are very slim.
But it's the word chance I don't like.