to lock DS1 and DD1 in separate rooms until they leave home?!

[SheBreathedNearMe]

I am past my wits end.

DS1 is 9. DD1 is 7. They genuinely cannot be in the same room together for more than 5 seconds without one or other screaming/hitting the other.

DS1 is very bright (HLP/gifted) - he is happy to be quiet and when he wants to talk/ask questions they have a point and a reason. Theories are thought out/have logic

DD1 is averagely clever (normal for her age) - she loves to talk/sing/hum generally make noise. she talks and sings for the pure fun of hearing her own voice. she will ask stupid/obvious questions in a clumsy attempt to get a conversation going, she speaks before thinking through what she says.

They have been quite reactive to each other since DD1 was around 4 but the last year to 18 months has escalated into something else. They both now assume the other is deliberately trying to annoy them and react as such. Examples:

So DD1 singing will promote DS1 to scream at her to shut up - but its 6 of one half a dozen of the other whether she was singing for fun or to wind him up.

DS1 will decide he needs to get his shoes out at the exact same moment as DD1 is looking for her's in the shoe box. She holds her ground so he screams and shoves her out of the way and she gets hurt. Either could have waited or moved slightly to the side so both could look in the box.

Generally DS1 is always watching what DD1 is doing, looking for something to tell tales about, just waiting for an excuse to kick off. DD1 will quite often deliberately come and start singing/imaginative playing right next to where DS1 is and under the guise of her toys coversation in her games will try and wind DS1 up.

They are absolutely both to blame as much as each other in different ways.

When either one isnt there we have nothing more than the usual sibling upsets with my other 2 (younger) DC. DS1 and DD1 on their own are a delight and lots of fun and very happy.

They have their own rooms so try and encorage them to play there so the other cant annoy them but they dont want to/refuse/have a major tantrum as they feel they are in trouble when it's the other one's fault.

Please someone give me some advice to break their habit of over-reacting to each other! I cant see how to stop this cycle.

Your son might be book smart but he’s not emotionally intelligent and is likely to be unpopular at school and university if he continues this lack of tolerance towards others. He really needs to learn that violence is much, much worse than being “annoying” and therefore yes he will be punished more severely for lashing out than his sister will be for singing.

I would play up to his pride and tell him that truly intelligent people don’t let others get the better of them and therefore if he truly wants to be considered intelligent he will need to learn how to manage his emotions and deal with his sister in a calm, collected manner.

It is likely his sister will stop trying to wind him up once she sees it doesn’t get her anywhere.

Honestly I think it sounds like you are enabling and excusing your son's intolerance and bad behaviour because he's gifted. Your daughter is cranking up the irritation levels because she knows you prefer your son.

It 100% reads like this to me too

Plus, 7 years olds are super annoying. It is THE most annoying age for children. Fact.

I think what's really telling in your post is that you've added so much detail and given examples. You are looking at the situation too deeply and from too many angles. It sounds like you feel you can't control the rivalry and feel overwhelmed. This all boils down to the simple fact your DC's don't pay any attention to you when you ask them to stop/be quiet etc. Sibling rivalry is normal but they should cut it out when you get involved and they're not. I think it's time to work on your own relationships with them and the ones with each other are likely to calm right down. Maybe play some family games and take them out individually and reconnect.

Also this.

conker that's an approach i havent tried, wonder if that may strike a cord with him.

If i am enabling him it is not my intention. i have tried as many methods as i can think of to combat this. nothing seems to be working.

He hasn't been assesed for HF autism though. this only happens with him and DD, no issues at all at school, i would assume if he can control himself at school (and actually never retaliated when he was bullied at his previous school) it is specific to them, not a bigger problem.

As i said, his HLP goes some way to explaining why he may struggle with her, it absolutely does not excuse his behaviour.

I have been very clear throughout that the violence is a complete no, i'm after ways to help both of them. i accept that DS's violence is the primary concern.

i am feeling completely overwhelmed by it, i feel like i want to give up as no amount ofr punishment/being calm/keeping them apart/rewards/one on one time seems to be making a blind bit of difference and i dont know what to do next.

they get regular one on one time - DS every evening when others are in bed for 30-45mins. We also take them out one on one when we can, even if its just picking one to come down to the shop with either me or DH to give them a bit of uninterrupted chat time with us.

lyra downstairs has a kitchen diner, playroom and lounge. DS has been told he can use the lounge if he needs space from the younger ones. they have their own rooms upstairs which they are free to use and under no obligation to let anyone else in. Lounge and bedroom are effectively quiet zones but i could make this more of a 'thing'

fudge i absolutely never give in to a tantrum, never have. DC know this, i frequently say to them as they start kicking off 'has a tantrum ever made me change my mind or does it just make me more cross?' - they know i wont give in. which makes it all the more baffling/frustrating that DS1 hasn't realised this yet!

Agree with others that you seem to be excusing your sons violence. If she's getting her shoes first. He can wait. His choice to shout, barge, hit is nothing to do with her and entirely his own unacceptable behaviour.

Tough though it sounds if he's hitting then surely they need constant supervision until his behaviour is under control and she is safe in her own home.

i cant follow DS around the whole time to check what is going on - i have 2 other DC and need to get dinner/uniform/do reading practice etc etc. it's just not feasible.

no, age 3-4 is the most annoying age!! [stares at clingy-sulky DD2]

DS1 is out this afternoon. DD1 is wittering to herself while drawing something at the kitchen table. in a world of her own, quite happy. DS2 out in the garden. DD2 is grouchy but think she's a bit under the weather. It's lovely! not a single argument and i doubt there will be one. i like tuesdays.....

i'm going to have a chat with DD1 in a bit while DS1 isn't around. speak to her about respecting people's space and to use her room if she wants to sing and be loud.

I will have a chat with DS1 when he comes home tonight, reiterate the rules and consequences. making it very clear that violence will always be punished, no matter what the provocation. tackle the violence first then move on to the general being crappy to each other.

i cant follow DS around the whole time to check what is going on - i have 2 other DC and need to get dinner/uniform/do reading practice etc etc. it's just not feasible.

If he can’t be left alone with his sister then he’d have to follow you around and be in whatever took you or your DH are in.

I think it’s a shame that despite the fact your children are harmonious this afternoon without your DS, that your DD is pottering around as herself without issue, that you still seem to think it’s mostly down to her causing ot

Is it your DD’s house or not? If yes she should be allowed to sing wherever she likes. If your son doesn’t like it he’s the one who should leave to his room. You are totally pandering to him.

DS1 is out this afternoon. DD1 is wittering to herself while drawing something at the kitchen table. in a world of her own, quite happy. DS2 out in the garden. DD2 is grouchy but think she's a bit under the weather. It's lovely! not a single argument and i doubt there will be one. i like tuesdays.....

If she's being noisy when he's not there then she's not being noisy to wind him up is she.

Definitely some golden child Vs scapegoat dynamics going on here.

lyra i dont at all - i think they are both as bad as each other. Because when i have DS1 home while DD1 is out i dont have a problem either. as long as one of them is not here the other 3 get on fine. I accept that DS is marginally worse on reflection but DD is not innocent.

teddy yes when she is just doing her normal singing - but what about when she deliberately picks baby shark which DS HATES? is she still just singing (as she claims) or trying to wind him up? (which DS claims). it's really hard to judge sometimes whether its coincidence what she wanted to sing or if she has chosen to come into the room to sing that particular song to wind him up. Not that it excuses violence of course but I can hardly blame him for being annoyed if she seems to be doing it deliberately. but maybe he just feels she's being deliberate and she is just so away with the fairies she doesn't notice its annoying him or that he's even in the room? She's a dreamy sort and can be oblivious. but DS can over react. i just dont know anymore!!

What's the dynamic like if DD1 is away and you have the three other children at home?

Op I think it's also important to remember that siblings will not get on perfectly either. Try not to over dramatize everything, model good behaviour to them, absolutely do not allow physical violence.

Agree with everyone else that the way your post is written lends itself to you believing the intelligence is more important. He will quickly find that means nothing at high school if he doesn't have any social skills.

And I think you need to let them sort it out themselves too, with a bit of guidance.

Agree with piggy. Children with behavioural problems aren’t often recommended to top sets at private / selective secondary schools where everybody is intelligent and works hard.

i accept that DS is marginally worse on reflection but DD is not innocent.

Except in your very next post you say you can’t actually tell if she’s annoying him or just oblivious because she’s a dreamy sort.

The only thing you know 100% is that he gets violent when she does something he doesn’t like. The shoes incident should be 100% his fault, but you make it a shared thing - if that’s replicated then you really are making her responsible for his behaviour.

Just because he says she’s doing it deliberately and because you used to wind your brother up doesn’t make her guilty.

thislittle it is 'leaving them to sort it out' which has got us to the point of this immediate violence from DS1 really. they clearly cant sort it out themselves, its gone too far.

intelligence is more important than what? If anything his HLP is a pain in the arse as he needs constant challenging to stop him getting bored, he was targetted for it and bullied to the extent we had to move him from his school. HLP is different from 'bright' - it brings extra complications that i could do without. Instilling good manners and good behaviour is my main goal for all my DC, something just isn't working with DS1 in particular and for DS1 and DD1 in conjunction - i was after new suggestions to break this cycle.

lyra - there are times when i see the whole incident, hence i know that sometimes she does it on purpose - i have heard her go into a room and sing 'i'm just going to sing to annoy you' over and over again - and then when questions claims she was just singing (she didn't know i heard her) so she has definite form for doing it on purpose. on the other hand, a few days ago DS was sitting at the table, DD comes from the garden, past the table to the hall to go to the loo, singing as she went and DS flipped out that she was trying to annoy him - she really wasnt, she was singing all the way down the garden and through the house and while on the loo! There are plenty of incidents going both ways , hence when i havent seen the incident i have no idea who is telling the truth.

I said with guidance - so you do some example situations, then show that you want him to model that next time a similar situation occurs. You absolutely have to let him try to do this himself after you have given some pointers etc. Get some books, there is one about a little red monster I think about controlling anger and physical reactions.

He doesn't have to not be annoyed, that's fine. But he cannot be violent. There are lots of resources out there and as he is smart he may enjoy getting into them.

i see your point on the shoes example - i think i'm just jaded by how long this has been going on, it all feels like one big 'he said/she said' argument with them, just waiting for the next one to kick off the whole time.

I guess i need techniques for stopping DS losing it - when i tell him he's wrong, that DD didn't do anything wrong he flips his lid.

i have ordered the siblings without rivalry book and see if that can shed some light.