To think the gov have let LGBT children down and have encouraged bullying

[LucyBart0n]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-48965655

And caused unnecessary problems for schools.

It now appears other religions are joining in on the act and coming out with homophobic bilge. One wonders if the ministers involved had had their own children suffer homophobic bullying that they might have been more proactive.

I don’t think it’s a coincident that the bullying my son suffered has reared its ugly head again. Thankfully as teachers and schools have more grit the culprits who said similar things to the Catholic leader in said article were dealt with appropriately.

Thanks a lot government you’ve told the world it’s not ok to be gay.

Your AIBU is that you think the government has let LGBT children down and has encouraged bullying. You put the T in there, so it's hardly surprising that it's being discussed.

If you'd said you thought gay and lesbian children were being let down by failure to crack down hard on homophobic bullying and a clear statement that religious beliefs don't trump equal rights and protections for same-sex attracted people, you'd have had near unanimous support, I'd say.

There are trans children in primary and secondary schools.

If you'd said you thought gay and lesbian children were being let down by failure to crack down hard on homophobic bullying and a clear statement that religious beliefs don't trump equal rights and protections for same-sex attracted people, you'd have had near unanimous support, I'd say.

Yes. And if you were concerned about all the lesbian & gay kids who are being drugged & sterilised because they’re made to think their bodies are wrong, we’d all be behind you on that too.

Well I do have a problem with it (and so do lots of people) and quite frankly I'd rather they left teaching of LGB issues to parents if the only way they'll do it in schools is to use it as a vehicle for promoting gender ideology.

I've explained LGB relationships to my son as he's a very inquisitive child and the subject has come up a few times. If you talk about same sex relationships as being a normal part of life from a young age it's not something kids seem all that fussed about. And I don't have an objection in principle to teaching about sex/gender issues but I'm afraid I just don't trust them to do this in an appropriate manner, especially when organisations like Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence and Stonewall are used to facilitate this.

There's also the question of religious freedom - I'm an atheist so this isn't something I'm going to get too worked up about, but we can't just dismiss this as 'bigotry' if we're going to also be tolerant of people's religion and beliefs. In a predominantly Muslim school they really need to take care to teach about LGB relationships in a way that is respectful of their belief system - I don't think that the No Outsiders program did that, in fact it seemed to be quite deliberately provocative in challenging their religious orthodoxy and I'm not sure that primary schools are the place to do that.

I agree that same sex relationships should be a part and parcel of the relationships education in primary school but it needs to be done with sensitivity otherwise you end up in a right mess like this.

THEr are children who think they are trans in primary schools.
Many more than in past years. Why might that be?
SUrely such children have always existed ?
Oh..what...they have always existed and then they grew up and realised they could live their lives as themselves without actually being in any way “wrong” .
I wasn’t born wrong, I don’t have the wrong body,, I just don’t fit sterotypes that some people want to enforce. I managed to avoid sterilisation by be8ng born too early.

Errr no it shouldn’t be left to parents as homophobic parents teach homophobia to their children. Those with placards outside the school are clearly not ok to leave the teaching of same six relationships to.

Many Muslims and Catholics aren’t homophobic. Homophobia shouldn’t be ignored in the name of religion in the same way racism shouldn’t. There is no room for either in this country ever and the gov should have made that clear.

Why did you say lgbt if you didn't want to discuss trans issues? Why not just lgb?

I believe that homophobia has been on the increase by the antics and excesses of the trans activists.

I’ve seen it since the late 70s and this is something else we are seeing. Never has there been a time where children are pushed to explain or discuss their ‘gender identity’ (or rather sexuality) at a young age.

School time devoted to lgbt... etc issues - why not ‘respect for all’ why specifically this one pony?

The finger is pointing the wrong way. Any people aren’t asking why such a small lobbying group has so much sway. Who decided to allow lobby groups to go into schools and tell children that if they don’t adhere to sexist stereotypes, maybe they are the opposite sex trapped in the ‘wrong body’? That they can change their sex? This is why a lot of these parents are pissed off.

I think this whole saga has been managed terribly, and the school and the children are suffering.
I think this education is needed at primary schools, and it seems in the wider community.
I don't agree with a lot of 'progressive' views around gender identity, but I'm also raising my children to have critical thinking skills. They don't have to agree with everything they are taught in school, but they do have to treat individuals with respect and fairness no matter how they express themselves. I'd expect no less from anyone.

Spot on Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

I suspect in time the LGB will break away from the rest of the alphabet soup as it becomes more and more apparent that it is causing them harm to be associated with them and is increasing homophobia. TQ+ etc should be its own organisation. LGB is sexual orientation. The rest is ideology and fetishism.

Because there are trans kids in schools.

LGBT relationships aren’t the only things discussed. My dc have to sit through teaching and discussion of Christianity and Islam( even though they know many want my ds stoned to death).

There are discussions on racism too. Should all the above be gone then?

NO there probabky are not trans kids at school. There are kids who think they are. True trans kids appears to be very very rare. What we have are societally induced transkids.

Genuine gender dysphoria is extremely rare op you do know that right?

The No Outsiders programme is close to 100% shite. No way would I allow my dcs to be taught it and I’m bisexual, have given my dcs lesbian godparents and send my to a school with a lesbian deputy, a gay classroom teacher and at least 2 lesbian TAs. Unfortunately a really good way of shutting down debate (apart from screeching “no debate”) is to liken the objection to ‘born in the wrong body, let’s reach for the hormones and scalpel’ theory to homophobia. Nobody wants to look homophobic, much easier to pretend, ( to quote MB) you’re brains have fallen out.

However rate they deserve to be protected from bullying and accepted.

LGB and T are not the same teach my dc that it's fine to be gay (you don't need to BTW but feel free to reinforce what they learn at home), feel free to say live as you like as long as it harms no one but don't lie to them that they can change sex, enforce gender on them or promote the current utterly offensive queer conversion therapy Mermaids and the like espouse.

In religion the kids are taught ‘some people believe...’. Current sigma is ‘this is the truth #nodebate’.

And the numbers of ‘transkids’ in Brighton is staggering. Why is this? A child may not like the stereotypical things or be gay. Why tell them that they are not ok as they are?

I too think that OP has their own agenda.

I don't see things the same way as OP.

Ds1 said that for some of his friends, at different local schools: LGBT seems so the rage, its more dominant than straight kids!
None of his friends care if anyone is gay, bi, trans or whatever! But they are fed up of it being shoved down their throats all the time.

There's also the question of religious freedom - I'm an atheist so this isn't something I'm going to get too worked up about, but we can't just dismiss this as 'bigotry' if we're going to also be tolerant of people's religion and beliefs. In a predominantly Muslim school they really need to take care to teach about LGB relationships in a way that is respectful of their belief system - I don't think that the No Outsiders program did that, in fact it seemed to be quite deliberately provocative in challenging their religious orthodoxy and I'm not sure that primary schools are the place to do that.

This too.

I disagree with the protesters but it needs to be recognised that 'religion or belief' is a protected characteristic in the equality act, just as much as 'sexual orientation'. And just as religion cannot be allowed to trump sexual orientation, neither can sexual orientation be allowed to trump religion.

Andrew Moffat says that one of the main aims of the No Outsiders programme is to teach primary school children about the Equality Act 2010. Yet out of the 35 recommended books, none specifically deal with religion or belief.

From Shelley Charlesworth's article:

I’ve read the 35 recommended books and correlated each one, where possible, with the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act. This was done on the basis of the content of each book. 17 books could be said to have a link to one of the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act.

They are listed here with the number of books that relate to them following in brackets.

Age (1) Disability (3) Gender Reassignment (4) Race (3) Religion or Belief (0) Sex (1) Sexual Orientation (5) Marriage and Civil Partnerships (0) Pregnancy and Maternity (0)

The best that can be said of Andrew Moffat is that he has behaved in a clumsy, thoughtless fashion with no regard to the rights of faith communities.

I suspect he knew what he was doing though.

Really,shoved down their throats all the time.

Only time it’s shoved down throats in my dc’s school is when the bullying and homophobic language gets out of hand or there is a complaint. Homophobic kids should be thankful, some actions and language could very well be police issues.

Hearing this shit has a really bad impact on LGBT kids so frankly I couldn’t care less if some get sick of it.

What about the kids damaged by swallowing this new religion?

Bullying sucks - but for Christ’s sake it’s always been there.

Religion is a choice,being gay isn’t so sorry it does trump religion. Homophobia in the name of religion just isn’t acceptable in our society which is why many Muslims and Christians aren’t homophobic.

So kids should just suck up bullying- unbelievable.

Sadly it isn’t just at this particular school that children are being let down.

However, these people protesting can’t love or care for their children or the children at the school, if they did they wouldn’t be willing to terrify them everyday when they go to school.

As someone who had the misfortune of growing up in a muslim household (a fairly liberal one at that), I’m well aware what children are taught about gay people, I am also well aware what happens to people that are suspected of being gay.

Despite the UK being one of the best places to be gay there are huge issues with homophobia, including in primary and secondary schools, sadly from my own experience with my son nursery schools as well. My son has fairly recently turned four and he has discovered that the word gay is an insult or a word for something rubbish. This is tolerated by a great deal of society, so it continues.

Gay, poof, fag and lezer are still go to insults in many schools, children from a really young age learn that gay is something bad, shameful, disgusting etc, then people act surprised when gay people have far higher rates of poor mental health, eating disorders and substance abuse.

But some of the material being taught is homophobic. I'm concerned about children being happy to pursue same sex relationships if they want, not being taught they should transition to the opposite sex and become straight. That's homophobia right there.