To think the gov have let LGBT children down and have encouraged bullying

[LucyBart0n]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-48965655

And caused unnecessary problems for schools.

It now appears other religions are joining in on the act and coming out with homophobic bilge. One wonders if the ministers involved had had their own children suffer homophobic bullying that they might have been more proactive.

I don’t think it’s a coincident that the bullying my son suffered has reared its ugly head again. Thankfully as teachers and schools have more grit the culprits who said similar things to the Catholic leader in said article were dealt with appropriately.

Thanks a lot government you’ve told the world it’s not ok to be gay.

"excusing homophobic protests"

No one is doing that.

I support people's right to protest, as we live in a democracy.

Or do democratic rights only extend to those we agree with now?

The way the left is going terrifies me.

I’m fairly sure there is more than one non-Hetero poster on this thread, do you not think the issue in lgbT vs LGB occurred to them?

Goodness me what a lot of silly frothing. No one is excusing homophobia. You are being invited to consider the complexities of a situation where peoples’ right to their beliefs - however abhorrent we may find those - potentially conflicts with what schools want to teach. There are ways to resolve that conflict, but denying the right of people who say things you don’t like to express themselves is not one of them.
You are also being invited to consider how conflation of T with LGB might be alienating people who would otherwise support the programme. I have no difficulty with making kids aware gay relationships exist - indeed I did that myself. I do have a difficulty with telling them people can change sex. I have told them very clearly that is a lie, and no one has the right to stop me doing that.

Yes you are. The homophobia shown by these parents and religious groups is abhorrent. They have no more right to express such views than other equally abhorrent views such as racism, disability etc.

How dare anybody make my ds feel shite about his sexuality. How do you think gay children and adults feel watching these protests knowing the gov did sweet fa?

And posters using such protests to push their own anti trans extremism is pretty low.

"The homophobia shown by these parents and religious groups is abhorrent. They have no more right to express such views than other equally abhorrent views such as racism, disability etc."

Everyone has a right to express their views.

That's democracy.

The minute you start saying what people are and aren't allowed to say, you're on very shaky ground.

And it’s not silly frothing it’s anger., anger I or anybody else who has seen a loved one suffer through such views and actions are fully entitled to feel.

You're entitled to feel angry, but they're not?

People like you scare me. Seriously.

So racists can say what they like? Trump can say American citizens should “return to their own country” because of the colour of their skin?

Dodgy ground is a society that doesn’t stand up to such views and deal with them appropriately.

Lucy, yes, he can say those things.

And people can counter them.

That is democracy.

What do you think is a better way? That people get punished for speaking or for saying the wrong thing? Because that is not a world I want to live, however abhorrent I might find certain views.

Look at Germany. The AfD (extreme right party) are democratically elected but they are essentially blocked from participating in the Bundestag. Do you think that has meant people have stopped supporting them? No. Quite the opposite. It has galvanised support because people do not feel heard. The support for them grows all the time.

When you brand people as bad and tell them they mustn't think certain things, don't be surprised when they don't listen to what you have to say.

These days, the left scares me as much as the right and I never thought I'd say that.

I say this as a bi woman who is in a mixed race relationship.

People do get punished for saying the wrong thing. Any child who comes out with racist or homophobic rhetoric will get delt with severely in schools. It goes on their record and can end in expulsion. If you voice such bile in the workplace it’s highly likely you’ll lose your job. The gov has a duty to teach children how to be part of a civilised society and to protect themselves from penalties. More importantly it has a duty to protect all its citizens. By not dealing with these protesters properly they are putting my son at an increased risk from homophobic bullying.

From the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference..."

It doesn't say "unless we think they are not very nice opinions."

We can be offended. We can speak out against those opinions. But we cannot ask people to withhold their opinions because it makes us sad or angry.

If you want that kind of country, don't be too shocked if the pendulum swings back the other way and you're the one being asked not to voice your views.

We live in a society which is overall in favour of gay rights but that might not last forever. So if you end up beiny told your views are disgusting and that you must not express them, you can't really complain if that is what you are asking of other people.

People have the right to protest.

I can't comment on things like schools or workplaces, I think each case varies wildly. "I disagree with same sex marriage" is unlikely to get you fired or expelled. That is essentially what is happening in these protests. If they were out there saying dyke or faggot or whatnot, that's a different matter.

No they shouldn’t. If the people with placards said ‘get blacks out of our school’ or ‘islam is terrorism’ do you think the government would’ve shut up and done as they asked?

Well maybe they would, judging the way the US is going. Those people had a right to protest about whatever they wanted but the government should’ve responded quickly condemning them and stating that homophobia has no place in our schools.

To stand outside a school, where by law of averages, there would’ve been some gay children and condemn gay relationships and teaching is abhorrent. If you walked up to a gay couple and said ‘your relationship is sinful’ you would be charged with a hate crime, but do it with placards and it’s your right and the government should roll over?

But early, they're not saying "get gays out of our schools", theyre saying "don't teach our children about gay relationships".

It's a completely different thing.

It means they don’t want gay people being accepted as ‘normal’.

If you went to your child’s school and said ‘don’t teach my child about black history month because we don’t really accept black people as normal in my family and you’ll confuse my kids’ what do you think your school would respond? Or if you ask your boss the same thing, what would she say?

OP is completely right, by failing to condemn these protestors immediately and by backing down, they’ve set gay rights back and opened LGBT kids up to bullying.

If people don’t see that as homophobic, then they are homophobic. If you changed homosexuality to black, jewish or feminist the protests would have been ended straight away. Sadly only certain hate crimes are taken seriously.

Sorry but if someone wants to protest black history month, I fully believe that is their right too.

Homophobia is one part. Trans is another. Why is there no open communication - explain what is being taught and who is supplying the info.

But these days - do we need to explain homosexuality to children? I was fully aware when I was in P4 that some people were gay.

It’s pretty clear that we need to be explaining to kids that we need to respect all, help others and be kind to each other. To question motives. Get involved in social and environmental issues. Volunteer. Be a good citizen. And assume that 99% of what is posted on SM is crap. And if the photos of the protestors can be taken at face value - how to protect girls from cultural practices which are incompatible with our lives here/today.

Once again the government come up with a bright idea and leave schools to cope with the fall out.

@LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Yes we do, my son is four, gay is already being used as an insult at his nursery school. Is P4 the same as year 4 in England? If so, I certainly knew that gay, fag, dyke and queer were bad, shameful disgusting things, but I had no idea what they really meant and I wasn’t unusual in that

I was 6-7 in P4. This was in the 70s!

It wasn’t an insult with the primary kids (that would have been high school kids who were just feral anyway and bullying for all reasons was rife) just a statement of fact. I remember telling a little friend in all seriousness that ‘some girls like to kiss girls you know... and not kiss boys...’.

Maybe this is why there has been such a rainbow push (teen bullying) but I do believe that the trans lobby has taken over gay rights for whatever reason. It’s causing things to go backwards to be honest. I think it’s the whole sexuality emphasis of the trans lobbyists - who are the voices we hear (with the manbabies, pups, rubber boys, biology deniers, etc) and their seemingly teflon coating, plus their aggressive pushback of women. Self ID is being pushed by a minority but there seems to be powerful voices on board. But some of us remember PIE and are scared and angry.

My niece's 13 Yr old lesbian friend was convinced she is actually a boy because of regressive and harmful gender ideology.

We live in Birmingham and my son attends a Stonewall Champion School. The material is shocking. It's homophobic, sexist and factually incorrect. It's deeply offensive to transsexuals and intersex people.

This is what I object to as a parent. A regressive extremism that teaches gender ideology as fact. That tells lesbians they should accept penis. I'd ask you to Google 'cotton ceiling' OP but as you haven't even read the Transgender Trend piece on 'Queering the Classroom' it may be pointless.

I abhor homophobia. But some believe Moffat purposely chose to teach at a 'Muslim school' to cause a reaction and that the T was conflated with the LGB to make those with concerns over the T (including many lesbians and transsexuals) look like bigots.

My niece's 13 Yr old lesbian friend was convinced she is actually a boy because of regressive and harmful gender ideology

I mentioned this to my sister the other day (that she would have been in the crosshairs if she was a child today). Her exact response was ‘bollocks that’s 100% different’.

Lord as a typical Tom boy I'd have been a target today.

More on the theory that Moffatt specifically chose that school to promote a wider agenda, which I believe to be Queer Theory, putting kink and fetish in the classroom.

coolnessofhind.wordpress.com/2019/02/27/andrew-moffat-and-parkfield-school-weaponizing-lgbt-against-the-muslim-minority/

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g said it perfectly for me.