To think the gov have let LGBT children down and have encouraged bullying

[LucyBart0n]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-48965655

And caused unnecessary problems for schools.

It now appears other religions are joining in on the act and coming out with homophobic bilge. One wonders if the ministers involved had had their own children suffer homophobic bullying that they might have been more proactive.

I don’t think it’s a coincident that the bullying my son suffered has reared its ugly head again. Thankfully as teachers and schools have more grit the culprits who said similar things to the Catholic leader in said article were dealt with appropriately.

Thanks a lot government you’ve told the world it’s not ok to be gay.

It is the government who are letting schools and children (and parents) down. They have a teflon approach - massively funding lobby groups, enabling them to target children and schools - with a mix of some good LGBT information and some utterly unacceptable material as specified above. And of course when parents see some of the extreme trans indoctrination and boundary breaching /sexual kink celebrating stuff, of course they are alarmed.

There are some experienced providers of sex education (Brook, Sex Education Forum, PSHE Association) who have the professional skills and experience to lead on this and are experts in working with schools, communities and children - the DfE should be commissioning them to do this. But for the lobby groups this as a funding stream and an opportunity to access children with their ideologies. I agree that many of the protests are based on homophobia - but sadly some of these groups should not be allowed anywhere near children - they have neither the expertise or the knowledge of child development and safeguarding. Parents are right to have reservations.

The protests about the No Outsiders program may very well be based on homophobic sentiments but if you actually look at the program and it’s roots in queer theory then it’s hard not to conclude that it is very dodgy indeed and has no place in primary schools. So it’s hard to get worked up about these protests because they are actually very helpfully highlighting something that lots of people find very disturbing, but for somewhat different reasons.

If it was just about teaching about same sex relationships in an age appropriate way then yes they would be totally out of order. That’s not the case though, is it?

I remember first hearing about the PIE group and finding it pretty unbelievable what went on with that but now I totally get how it happened as I’m seeing it now with my own eyes in things like this. It’s horrible.

I don't think these protests are about No Outsiders though specifically are they? From what I have seen, they are targeted much more basically at the information being given out about same-sex relationships.

Perhaps if the protests were less shouty and aggressive and placard-wavy, we'd be better able to have a discussion about it and drill down to the real concerns and boundaries. And also avoid distress for the children and teachers. That's what the government should lead on, isn't it?

Hopefully this only happens in state schools.
I'm sending my child to a private school when the time comes.
I am not part of Abrahamic religions like Christianity and Islam, not I'm glad they are opposing this.
I want my child to learn maths, science, technology, IT, not homosexual relationships and transgender cutting bits off your body stuff.

BoredToday why don't you want your child to learn about homosexual relationships?

I don't want my kids thinking it's normal.
I don't believe in persecuting people or ostracizing them.
I have employed gay people and lived next door to a transgender person , make to female.
I have no problem in day to day interaction because they are still humans and bleed the same blood I do.
However, in my mind I do not think it's is natural.
It's propaganda messing with the masses minds.
I want my child to be polite to everyone but there is no way I want him thinking it's normal.
I know this is not a popular opinion.
If this stuff is taught in schools he'll think it's normal and may experiment.
I do have 2 gay friends, I do like them, they are good laugh however, I'm my mind I do think their hormones must be messed up.

Your post speaks for itself really - homosexuality IS normal.
I wonder how your gay friends would feel if they knew you thought they were unnatural and messed up.
Your child isn't going to 'turn gay' because of hearing about it in school.

They know I think it's weird.
I've known both of them since we were all 11.
I haven't said anything in years, but I'm sure they remember what I said to them back in university when they both came out.
Their sexuality is not part of our friendship, maybe because we have known each other from childhood.
It's hard to explain, I like them, we accept each others views. They know I think they have a chemical imbalance. However, we're still in touch.

My DS was badly bullied in primary, along with many others in his class. It was very badly handled by the school. One of the insults regularly thrown was 'gayboy' but LGBT wasn't the problem. The bullies in question went for anyone who was different in anyway and didn't fit the narrow social standards of half a dozen of the boys. Apparently liking trains is a bad thing???? Those who did not get bullied joined in on the fringes of the bullies. It was a very standard template of bullying behaviour, well recognised by educationalists, and should not have festered.

I can't see any way these bullies would have responded to the No Outsiders 'education' in the way they would wish.

@boredtoday congratulations! You're a homophobe! I'm so, so glad that you think me and my relationship are not normal.

You are why we need this education in schools. I hope your children do better than you.

They will know to be polite to you as they would be to anyone else.
But they will not think it's normal.
I'm not a homophobe I'm not scared of homosexuals it trans etc
I don't believe that it's normal.
Big difference.
If I was a homophobe I would not employ them.

I don't believe in Christanity, Islam etc, but I'll send my kid to a Christian school if it means this education is not on their curriculum.
Kids don't need to learn about sexuality at school they need to get good grades.
British kids are not getting the best jobs.
That what schools need to think about, maths, science, IT.

So bored today is bored with insulting and studying people up on I've thread and has moved on to another.

Having your own opinion is not insulting others.
I don't have to agree with your agenda.
I'm not a sheep like you Gooigi.

Calling people wierd and imbalanced is insulting.

How am I a sheep?

Sorry but trans activists have taken over yet another thread. Could you have your debate somewhere else. This is about homophobia being pandered to and the government letting children down.

Always happens. It’s maddening. Schools are absolutely right to teach children that it’s ok to be you and for others to be them.

It’s awful you son has suffered. Hopefully this generation of young people will grow up far more enlightened.

I’m not sure the government are to blame for the protests though. I think local political issues are the problem.

@boredtoday Oh yes you absolutely are homophobic. Without a doubt. If you think that the way that I was born is strange then the problem is absolutely with you and not with me.

I sincerely hope that when your children are in the real world they're exposed to a range of real, actual people and they make their own decisions. The next generation of children do not need to be overshadowed by the homophobia of their parents.

Amazingly, I'm also a primary teacher! How would you feel if I taught your kids? Strange, I bet.

You need to grow up.

When you live in a diverse society, these are the issues you musy face.

We can't just say "these people are horrible, awful bigots because they have a different opinion or lifestyle to me". That in itself is horrible and bigoted. We need to reach a place where we can discuss these issues mutually. If these people were saying "all gay people must die", I'd have an issue with that. But I don't think that is the issue really. We can disagree and not dob the other side bigots/snowflakes accordingly.

Everything taught in schools should be based on facts. Yes there are gay people. If you are gay, that's fine but it's going to be a problem for some people and this is how you deal with that and who you can talk to.

"You are a boy but you like fluffy pink unicorns therefore you must be a girl"? No. That is not something I want my children or anyone else's being taught.

"Society imposes strict gender roles on people of both sexes and you may feel you don't fit in that box and you might feel confused and here are some ways you can deal with that that don't involve mutilating your body or claiming to be the opposite sex"? Fine.

Let's just teach our children that it's fine to be the person they are but lets also not pretend that everyone in the world is going to be ok with it, because they're not.

@takeoneforthebreem I'm sorry, but I'm never going to be okay with someone having a problem with me, my partner, many of my friends and a vast number of other people. I will not ever live comfortably with that.

I and all the others didn't choose to be LGBTQ+ however religion is a social construct created and developed by humans which just gets to decide that I'm somewhere between 'strange' and 'should be killed' for something I have no choice over. They are wrong. People who decide they are uncomfortable with me are wrong. I don't care what their ancient books say at all.

Calling yourself gay when you're heterosexual (attracted to the opposite sex) is homophobic.

ghost gender is a social construct too, just as much as religion.

All forms of ethics and morality are social constructs. Not just Christianity, not just Islam, but also nationalism, liberalism, Marxism, human rights theory, the whole lot.

If you want to say that your version is something more than that, why then, you sound no different to a religious fundamentalist. Actually, that's just what those who wish to impose their dogmatics on this Birmingham school sound like.

Privacy of family life is also a human right. These parents are entitled not to have it unnecessary infringed. And before you say "so what, they're bigots", remember why we have human rights. It's not to advance whatever cause is "in" right now.

@TakeOneForTheBreem I've already stated further up that gender is a social construct, I don't understand what point you're making by stating that again?

@tompinch human rights also mean that your beliefs shouldn't infringe on others lives. It's a tough one, absolutely. However, there are gay and trans children living in communities where people think that they're wrong. That's an absolute and clear infringement on their human rights. Again, religion and religious beliefs have been created and reinforced by humans over thousands of years. A human choice. Being gay isn't a choice, there's nothing you can do to change it. However, religion has changed to get rid of other rules... Divorce... Shellfish... Wearing mixed fabrics... Just can't get past they gay thing because of intolerance.

If anything, the point of human rights is to stop people imposing on each other. The right of privacy of family life reflects the fact that as parents are responsible for their children, they say what goes.

It's not the parents in Birmingham who are imposing here. I don't see any fundamentalist Salafists insisting on entering classrooms in Brighton to indoctrinate the children with their particular interpretation of the Koran. But if I'm wrong, do tell me.

The more I think about this, the more I think this isn't about whose right or whose wrong. It's a power struggle; an attempted imposition of values without resorting to reason or consent, and perfectly designed to cause a shitstorm that is bad for everyone.

I personally do not think sexuality and sex education should be taught at Primary level. Any education and discussions of this kind should wait until secondary level.

I think plenty of religious parents are also very reasonable and will accept their children will be taught this information but primary age is just too young to be discussed outside the context of their own family. If the government pushes this then Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Mormon and other religious groups that have traditional morality at the heart of their belief system are going to protest. I think if this is handled carefully and intelligently most of those parents will be OK with it being taught at 11+ age level.

The fact that transgenderism is still very controversial with little scientific basis and a lot of ideology, I think many parents will want to know exactly how sex and gender are being taught in schools. There never seems to be any workable definition of “gender”. If the government attempts to redefine the categories of “man” and “women” without basing those definitions on biology and sex differences expect lots of very angry and upset parents.

My best friends son is gay and he was bullied mercilessly by the black boys in his school in London as their parents were from African cultures where being gay is still socially completely unacceptable.