To think something must have happened

[MrsDragonLady]

Early last year, DH gave up his job to be a stay at home dad, so that I could change my career. The job I had taken was crap hours and pay, but it was entry into a field that didn’t come up very often.

Now, 18 months on, I’ve secured a better job and the hours mean he will be able to go back to work too, something which he had always planned on doing.

He applied back to the company he had left, but on a different department. He got rejected before interview. So he applied again back onto the department he had left. He had 9 years experience and had been put forward by a former colleague that was still in the department. The manager wasnt the same one as when he left. He was basically offered the job at interview, but got told he would have to wait for the official email from head office to confirm. A week later he got a “after much deliberation, we have decided not to offer you the job” email! He contacted for feedback and got told he wasn’t the right fit for the position, but they would consider him for future roles.

Fast forward two months, he’s applied for 8 more jobs at that company and been rejected for them all.

He’s now moved onto applying at different companies and having the same issue with every single one. He’s getting an interview, being provisionally offered the job, then after being passed on to head office he gets a rejection email around a week later.

Could it just be a massive coincidence, or am I right in thinking that something must have happened for him to keep being rejected like this. He’s applied for well over 30 jobs now in various postions, companies and for different hours and not been considered for any of them!

@MrsDragonLady Does he have any explanation for why he's being offered the job and then being told to wait for an email? What does he think is happening in that time?

It's not unusual to be offered a job at interview in some industries, but usually it would then be completed in the interview - you'd discuss hours/salary etc there and then, and the only things left to wait for would be a start date/references etc.

Is he misinterpreting someone being friendly and optimistic - "That was great, we think you'd be a great fit, we'll be in touch to confirm" and not actually being offered it? Are they asking him permission to contact his references during the time he's waiting?

If they are offers that are being rescinded, that's concerning. If it's just that he's enthusiastic, feels it goes well and misinterprets what the interviewer says, it's less concerning as jobs are competitive right now.

*"How do you befit at work by becoming a father?"

Employers think you will be much more motivated to make money to support your family I suppose. Possibly also less likely to move from a secure job.*

Does this mean that men who are not fathers are viewed as less motivated and less reliable?

Why is it illegal to flag someone up as not to be rehired? Whatever the problem is that led to that decision would work against any other candidate that was being interviewed as well, would it not?

As he has reapplied for jobs at his old company, wouldn't they have access to his full HR record to look at anyway - so could be going on what that says rather than a reference? And as someone else said most places dont ask for references until an offer is in the pipeline anyway.

While it is illegal to give a bad reference, people do give them.

Urban myth. I wish people would stop perpetuating the 'bad reference' being illegal, They are not illegal.

References have to be truthful so if you are as shit employee with a personality disorder, ridiculous levels on Monday-Friday sick leave, and poor timekeeping who was sacked, then it is is perfectly reasonable to put that in a reference if asked. If none of those things apply to you and your reference contains them , then it is illegal.

However most references these days are just a confirmation of where you worked, and dates.

Sounds to me like the directors (head office email side of things) don’t want to take the risk with the possibility of him taking sick leave when DCs are poorly.... especially as he left the same co. to be a SAHD. They also might view his leaving as not taking his career there seriously.

Don’t agree with any of this, but certainly in the construction industry, I’ve seen and heard it all at that level.

Whatever the problem is it won't be on paper.

It's more likely to be a bad verbal reference or something that the company are aware of that hasn't been recorded but someone has brought up - "Do you remember when he worked here before and ...." (eg. an incident with a colleague, inappropriate behaviour, major fall-out within the workplace, affair with a colleague etc)

Any chance that he's got a criminal record that you wouldn't know about? Could he have disclosed a conviction that he's got in recent years that means he's not suitable for the job?

MoreSlidingDoors

Yes, I think it's obvious this would be unlawful. I was an employment advisor and HR project manager in a former life; just because something is unlawful doesn't stop it happening.
And you can take action in the tort of defamation for a detrimental reference so yes, you can have access to them.

Does he work in finance? Or is it a job handling money? Only thing I can think off is that his credit file might be ropey?

HeadintheiClouds
If you're referring to my comment re not re-hiring, please read the whole of it.
I'm afraid I don't understand the rest of your comment or how it might be relevant.

MyOpinionIsValid
Only an employer who wanted to open themselves up to litigation would put this sort of information as a detrimental reference.

Boysey45
If an employer refuses to give a reference, that can be seen as equivalent to giving a bad reference.

There's a few things which don't add up here. It is rare, in my experience, to be verbally offered a job at interview but I can see why it could happen in some industries. However, withdrawing job offers after they've been made is rare full stop, so unusual that it really wouldn't make any sense for him to repeatedly lie about it if, as some PPs are suggesting, he's not really applying for jobs or attending interviews. If that's what he's doing, there are far more convincing lies to tell.

It's possible that he's somehow blacklisted; I don't know how incestuous the butchery industry is but if it's meat packing and processing, rather than behind the counter in a supermarket or shop, then I can well imagine this is the case.

However, what is far more likely, based on my own experience, is that he's simply finding out just how brutal it is out there. Applying for over 30 jobs and getting even one interview: I'd love that. It would be much less soul-destroying than applying for fifty jobs that I could do in my sleep and not even getting a single reply. Since I finished my MBA I've applied for well over a thousand jobs and have ended up being a SAHD by default. When I read threads like this I wonder if I'll ever work again.

Sorry to have confused you, Devora. I simply expressed doubt that giving advance notice of someone’s unsuitability for re employment was in any way illegal.
Not quite sure why this needed to be “relevant” to you, but never mind.

You can’t take legal action against anyone for stating facts. Even in this day and age where fact and fiction seem to have fused in some areas...
What could possibly be unlawful about stating someone rings in sick every Monday morning?

It is a tough market and I know SAHM and SAHD with excellent work background, who are struggling to go back to work. That is why there are so many get back to work programmes for professionals. I have been doing volunteer work and trying to get back to work for 6 months. It is taking planning and rebuilding contacts in my field. I have had 2 job offers both, of which, got stopped during the onboarding process. I know it is not my references as I work with a recruiter and all was in place. the market is funny right now and things happen.

Presuming he is definitely being offered interviews and is getting positive response at them I think the issue is the reference.

Either referee is giving a negative reference or when referee is discloses friendship the recruiting managers are contacting someone else (a contact in the industry or central hr function). They should only contact the nominated referee but this does happen.

Does he have a relatively common name - is it possible his referees or HR are confusing him with someone else?

Would suggest he asks his referees if they have actually been asked for a reference.

Just get a friend whos got a company to ask for a reference from the previous employer.

Get him to ask to see his references.

He’s not entitled to see his references.

Not according to this website More:

"Confidential references: A reference, given confidentially, in relation to an employee’s employment is exempt from a data subject access request.

However, if the reference is in the hands of the recipient, it is not exempt and so the employee may make a data subject access request to his or her new/prospective employer.

Likewise, the employee can also use a data subject access request to see references that you have received about him or her from a previous employer."

www.personneltoday.com/hr/data-subject-access-requests-common-employer-queries/

"What could possibly be unlawful about stating someone rings in sick every Monday morning?"

I don't know, but asking an employee for number of sick days on an application form is illegal (unfortunately, some employers get around this by asking it on the 'equalities' form).

Sorry More, looks like what you posted on the previous page about references is more up-to-date than what I found on the internet. I would personally still try and ask for them though. Even if they're not legally obliged to disclose them, they might still do it.

I reckon any of the bad stuff is passed over to the interviewer verbally when the references are checked, to avoid this sort of comeback. It’s impossible to check or prove.

However, withdrawing job offers after they've been made is rare full stop

Agree, so I struggle to believe he keeps being offered jobs at interview and they keep rescinding.

As said I think he's simply over egging the interview to the op, possibly being pushy in the interview, to get them to say something positive, and simply misinterpreting the whole lot.

I doubt it's reference, normally companies tell you it's the reference that caused the offer to be rescinded. As such, I think this is rhe interviews aren't going as well as he said and he's not being offered jobs on the spot as he is saying.