AIBU to think that just as a male should not slap a woman's face ,a woman shouldn't slap a man ?

[peridito]

Son slapped in face by girlfriend . Night out ,son went outside club/bar to speak to friends ,girlfriend offended and came out and slapped him.

Appreciate there may be more to it than I know ,but is it ever right to slap someone round the face ?

Son seems ok with it ,but I'm not .

“I'm sick of the whatabouttery from people like @bertrandrussell who decide that a man being assaulted is little more than an opportunity to talk about men assaulting women.“

I’m sorry you think that’s what i’m saying. I’m not- but I suspect you have already decided that I am so it is pointless for me to say anything else. I am glad you are no longer in an abusive relationship. I know how hard it is to leave.

You can agree with this and still believe women abusing their partners is wrong full stop.

Uh, yes I know.

I was responding to the poster who was talking about how male victims are frequently silenced and not taken seriously. But that is not something which affects only male victims. Abuse victims in general are frequently not taken seriously and are frequently silenced. Their sex is often irrelevant.

You mean like this thread? Talking about violence against males has become 'but what about female victims'

Yes, exactly like this thread.

The OP could have simply asked for help. Instead she posted an inflammatory thread title and started making pointlessly comparing victims.

Quick reminder of the thread title:

AIBU to think that just as a male should not slap a woman's face ,a woman shouldn't slap a man ?

The OP was the one who started talking about female victims and comparing them to her son.

Nobody turned this thread into anything it wasn't already.

HugsAreMyDrugs. You've proved SlightlyMisplacedSingleDad point really.

Which one?

I think the reason that women get upset is that changes in approach /ideas around 'equality' are so often used against us.

The idea that it's just as bad for woman to attack a man than vice versa is true

Irrespective of the level of harm... Which is where you need to go I think, as the harm committed at a population level male on female versus female on male is so different if measured in terms of physical injury.

If you want female on male violence to be seen as, as bad, you really do need to decouple it from the outcome.

Women know that all this stuff ends up costing us. Which is why things can get heated.

Which one?

All of your posts since he posted are proving that what he is saying is correct - that violence towards men from women is minimised because, in general, people don't see it as bad as violence against women.

Evidently the law does differentiate between the levels or implied harm and the actual harm inflicted, despite what many on this thread seem to believe.

Not really. No one is claiming that a man can hit a woman and say 'her fault for having a fragile skull'.

What I am saying is the fact that a man 'could' hurt a woman more, doesnt mean that women arent as bad for hitting and abusing.

And actually, if a man shoves a woman, while he actually has the potential to kill her. He would not be charged with attempted murdering for shoving her. The law doesnt support that.

The law will look at the Injury recieved.

The same as they would a woman. A woman shoves another woman who is smaller and weaker, isnt going to be charged with further offences because she could have hurt her more.

And in order for it to be seen as a bad, at a population level, involves decoupling it from the harm done, at population level.

This is where we've got to with this conversation I think.

The OP was the one who started talking about female victims and comparing them to her son.

No she didnt start comparing victims. She compared the act of slapping someone.

She didnt say 'are men at the same risk as women of DV' or 'do women cause the same damage as men' or anything of those sorts.

If you want social attitudes to change then that's the piece of engineering you need to do.

It is being worked on, to the glee of violent men all over the intetnet. The, now you've got equality it means I can punch you in the face crew.

I think keep pushing, attitudes are changing already.

If you want to upgrade female violence against men, then you do need to downgrade male violence against women, you just won't get society to change otherwise I don't think.

Fraggling

I'm not sure I understand your point.

If a woman hits a man, I suppose in general, that less physical harm will be done than if a man hits a woman.

But who's to say that women only hit? What if they use a weapon, or a kettle of boiling water (as shown on that documentary recently) or an iron or a knife?

I don't see the point in this competitiveness. Any abuse is wrong.

If you are only considering physical harm caused by abuse then you are ignoring the harm that emotional abuse or coercive control can cause, and many women are victims of that too.

Everyone, men and women, need to realise that any violence is wrong. We shouldn't be excusing it or minimising violence against men because violence against women might cause greater injury.

You need to, as the pp indicated, look at the action and not the outcome.

A hit is a hit whoever does it, and equally bad.

I do have sympathy with this approach and understand why people want to move towards it.

Problem is, outcome does matter. But you must ignore that to make this work, I think.

Yes decompising exactly.

Exactly that, I couldn't have put it better.

I do think this approach will fuck women over totally but, same old same old, really.

Ah, I see you're not actually being serious. You're just goading. I will leave you to it.

Ah, I see you're not actually being serious.

I'm being completely serious. It's not on to respond to a man detailing his abuse that women have it worse.

Anyway before I go, i just want to state the bloody obvious that abuse is wrong.

I will leave you all to your minimising now. I have a beautiful DS I need to pick up from my parents .

And in order for it to be seen as a bad, at a population level, involves decoupling it from the harm done, at population level.

That's the difference you are using the stats at population level.

I am talking about the individual impacts.

Men commit far more DV than women. That doesnt mean women committing DV isnt as bad. It doesnt mean that the impact on individual victims is any less, because other people their sex is more likely to commit DV that be the victim.

Again, if a woman drinks and drive is it less bad because men do it more?

I didn't say women have it worse. I said that abuse victims in general are not taken seriously. It is not something which is exclusive to male victims despite what some people like to think. The fact that you've concluded I was saying women have it worse from that says more about you than me.

Enjoy the rest of your day .

www-telegraph-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/22/growing-number-men-reporting-domestic-violence-police-ons-figures/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQA#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2018%2F11%2F22%2Fgrowing-number-men-reporting-domestic-violence-police-ons-figures%2F

The ONS in 2018 reported that recorded incidents of domestic violence against men rose to 14.7% whilst recorded incidents against women fell to 18.4% over the same period, so domestic violence against men isn't a small problem, the numbers are very close.

Protein the perdon who said it was talking at population level, in general. And about actual outcomes, actual levels of physical injury.

You are talking about something else. In an indivifual level the law treats each case individually. Thats as it should be.

The pp was talking about what needed to happen to make female violence against men be taken as seriously as male violence against women, that involves focussing on the action and not the outcome, if you want to change society view.

I would say that society does not take male violence against anyone seriously enough, tbh. And also that female violence is very roundly condemned, seen as shocking, as it is less common and also against how women are 'supposed' to behave.

If you want to change how society feels about men hitting women vs women hitting men then you do need to push things in a certain direction. As that poster indicated when they said level of physical injury was a poor measure of harm. Not to all the dead women it isn't but there you go.

I thought it was common knowledge that the ONS figures on domestic abuse were dodgy?

The dv violence stats deliberately exclude lots of dv against women, it was in the news a lot last year.

Also, your use of those stats again indicates a desire to look at action and ignore outcome. Which does seem to be the way things are being pushed.

I thought you said you didn't want to do that at a population level and yet, here we are.

Anyway I think some people on here are spoiling for a fight, as it were.

I will watch the progression of the efforts to downgrade vawg (even more!) with interest and sadness tbh