to not know what's fair re: finances after baby

[chiccocico]

Can someone help me make sense of finances after a baby, I genuinely can't see what's fair.
So me and DP (not married) both earn the same salary. We have lived together for 4 years (I moved into his house which he purchased a year before we met).

For three years I paid him rent and I bought all the food. He paid his mortgage and all bills. Finances are separate.

Had a baby a year ago and have been on mat leave for a year. For the first few months of mat leave the arrangement remained the same as I was receiving more or less the same salary. At around month 4 when my income stopped we agreed that I stop paying rent but I have been continuing to pay food and majority of baby expenses.

Before baby we both had around 30k each in savings but I have spent nearly 4k of mine this year. About a year ago DP started overpaying on his mortgage so he is overpaying by double what his mortgage is. He says he more or less breaks even every month now so he can't save any more and on some months he has had to dip into his savings to cover this extra cost.

We have no help with childcare we will be using a childminder. I think he was expecting me to pay for the childminder from my wages as he has so much going out from his account. But I explained to him that he is choosing to pay off his mortgage early and that if we split up I would get nothing from that and my savings would get eaten up so I would be so much worse off. We have also discussed me going part time- 3 or 4 days.

We got into an arguement about it today and he said if I want to split it down the middle we can but I will end up paying more than I am now and that he would want a legal document so that I can't claim half his house. It has left me really confused and I don't know what to do.

Sorry if this is really confusing I have tried to explain it the best I can.

I’ve never understood how people can try and keep very separate finances when children come along. It just seems like hard work and doesn’t help with efficient or fair spending as a couple. I have to admit I’ve always been the lower earner but if I was the higher earner, I wouldn’t want to have nice things if my other half couldn’t as well.

As an example one of my friends was moaning that they weren’t having a family holiday that year because her husband couldn’t afford his share because he was paying off his car (which they used jointly). She had the money for them all but wouldn’t cover it as they had always done 50:50 for holidays. She was seriously considering taking the kids away on her own and leaving her husband behind. Seemed total lunacy to me.

Didn't we have a thread recently where a DP was not expecting to pay rent on the OP's property and he was universally announced to be a cocklodger?

IIRC he didn't pay anything

GPatz Depends on the level of rent for me. If he has no intention of sharing equity then I don’t think she should have been paying anymore than 50% of the interest only amount plus bills. Any more then she would have been building his equity but gaining nothing from it financially. He was benefiting from extra help financially given he bought the flat before he met her so presumably could afford the mortgage on his own.

Speak to a family solicitor asap. You need to know where you stand legally. If you have no legal claim on YOUR home (your partner planned it this way...) then get married in a civil ceremony. If he wont then demand 50% childcare and look for your own place. (You wont pay the extra 12% stamp duty as you dont own part of his house). Couples counselling required as this will be a longterm issue with him.

I’ve never understood how people can try and keep very separate finances when children come along. It just seems like hard work and doesn’t help with efficient or fair spending as a couple. I have to admit I’ve always been the lower earner but if I was the higher earner, I wouldn’t want to have nice things if my other half couldn’t as well

I agree

You can get legally married for less then £100 in a registry office. Sounds like he's making excuses not to marry you, you can have a big wedding later on if needs be. All money goes into one joint account and everything including mortgage, bills, childcare, hobbies etc comes out of this. If there is anything left over at the end of the month, then split it evenly between you to put in your own savings. You are a family, a team and everything should be considered family money. You are not secure until you marry, especially now you have children.

This is a right old mess. You should have secured your rights before even thinking of having a baby.
But anyway it's pointless saying that as it's done.
The baby belongs to both of you, he needs to be paying of half of the childcare and the babies needs.
If he won't then I suggest you use your savings to buy your own place and move out. He will have to pay for the baby then.
If you don't own any of the house and won't if you split up then don't pay a penny towards it.
You MUST protect your own future.

Have you discussed marriage recently?.I think in your position I would have a rethink .It doesnt really matter what kind of wedding you prefer .Could you not have a small intimate one with close friends /family ?.The problem here is you are giving up a lot of financial independence and he is salting money away .If the house is in his name only ,that means you would have very few rights if you ever split up.I would hold off having another baby ATM until you sort this out!

If he's genuine and honestly sees a future together he'll get this sorted as soon as he realises how vulnerable you are.

If he resists you need to have a very hard think. And probably stop paying him rent, while he pays double mortgage and you look after your son.

Why on earth have you had a baby with him outside of marriage in these circumstances?

Get yourself on the property ladder even a small buy to let, if it goes tits up he’ll be laughing all the way to the bank when his mortgage is paid off with your rent and you’re in a homestead shelter!!!

If you both earn about the same, why is he suggesting that you give up work and become a SAHM? And why are you considering that you should go PT? Why you? Suggest that he goes PT or gives up work to be a SAHD. I bet he wouldn't like that since it would hit his finances (and is exactly what he's suggesting should happen to you).

But you could both go PT to 4-days a week, which would allow you both to have some time with baby (and would make sure he doesn't become an incompetent man-child when it comes to childcare), and would protect your career and earning capability.

If he genuinely sees his payments into the mortgage as good for both of you, your name should go on the house deeds.

And when he's suggesting to split the costs 50:50, and warning that it means you'll end up paying more, you need to remind him that it would also mean he would be responsible for 50% of all childcare:

...That's 50% of all the drop-offs / pick-ups, 50% of sick days, 50% of overnight duties, 50% of making childcare arrangements (how much time has he put into sourcing a nursery?), etc etc. And definitely 50% of the PT working to accommodate baby.

Personally, I would bite his hand off at this offer of a 50% split of everything. Retain your independence and your career. You earn the same as him, so why this traditional man-works, woman-looks-after-child split?

Out of interest, why didn't he take any parental leave?

You have a serious problem here OP. He either adds your name to the mortgage or you seriously consider leaving. He only has the property for one year before you met and you've had a year of mat leave. Unless he had a sizeable deposit then actually this should already be a 50:50 split. The fact that he's cited that he thinks that this is HIS house is a massive red flag.

Oh. And I wouldn't be having any more children until you get his matter sorted. You should have future proofed before you had the first. You're very vulnerable right now - in every way.

You are both parents to a young dc, you are staying home with your dc and suffering the financial cost of this. Your dp has taken on the responsibility for your dc which he is not meeting currently. I think you need to sit down and plan out your finances.

(a) Wills
(b) Insurance to cover the mortgage if not covered
(c) house left to you in the event of his death as a home for you to bring up his dc(s)
(d) Joint account to include income with agreed personal savings

I think if you care about each other then look at getting married as its easier when there are dcs. One way of looking at the house would be to value his equity at the time you moved in ie the market value less the outstanding capital due. That would be fair. I've deliberately not read other's suggestions but will now read them

We got into an arguement about it today and he said if I want to split it down the middle we can but I will end up paying more than I am now and that he would want a legal document so that I can't claim half his house. It has left me really confused and I don't know what to do.*

If he were to drop dead tomorrow (and it does happen) - where would you be financially and property wise?

Has he made a Will? Are you a beneficiary if so? If not, just think about the consequences for you and your baby. What would his family do - would they support you?

You need to take legal advice vis à vis your precarious situation asap.

Didn't see @bellabasset's post before I posted! 😀

The amount of these threads on Mumsnet is staggering.

If you truly don't want joint financed (DH and I don't) then you need one central account that ALL bills come out of - regardless of its childcare or mortgage etc. You both put a set amount into that account every month that is relative to what you earn - so he will be paying much more whilst you're on maternity leave.

That being said, you only do this AFTER you have your name added to the mortgage and/or you get married. You don't need to agree on the type of wedding you want - go to the registry office and just do the legal bit, protect yourself and your DC.

There are so many threads like this on MN because somehow young women have become convinced that they should be paying half the bills AND doing all the housework and childcare, with zero support and commitment from the child’s father. And that somehow this is fair, because he earns more/ has a hobby / likes to go out with his mates / doesn’t want to be tied down.

It’s very clever.

We got into an arguement about it today and he said if I want to split it down the middle we can but I will end up paying more than I am now and that he would want a legal document so that I can't claim half his house.

I've just re-read this... so it is his house? So he's spending all his money on mortgage overpayments that only he will benefit from, while you sort out all the childcare and all the bills?

At the moment he's happy it's unequal so he'll pretend the house payments are for you too, but if you insist on equality he'll ensure the house is his only? I really don't understand where his logic is coming from there.

Having a child is a joint commitment. So is paying for it. Stop scrabbling it's no way to live, just pool everything.

Also...did he make you sign a tenancy agreement?! Because if not then the money you have paid him would be classed as mortgage repayments. You need a solicitor. You also need to get the help out of Dodge as he sounds too selfish and cunning for words.

Your baby’s father has made it abundantly clear that he does not view you as a family unit because he is protecting his assets from you.

^^This PP has nailed it. This is exactly the situation in a nutshell.

he said if I want to split it down the middle we can but I will end up paying more than I am now and that he would want a legal document so that I can't claim half his house

^ This is straight from the horse's mouth. He has no intention of you being able to benefit from the house or from any savings he accrues in the event that you split. You say that he genuinely just doesn't think you'll ever split up, but the fact he would ask you to sign a legal document to protect his^ assets makes it very clear that he has given lots of thought to the possibility of the relationship ending and is simply ensuring that he is the one to retain all the assets.

This is not how a family works, OP. I'm a bit amazed that anyone thinks this sounds like a good relationship tbh. I mean, this isn't how you treat someone you love. I would never leave my DH in a precarious position like this and he would never have done it to me.

Bloody italics. No idea what happened there

somehow young women have become convinced that they should be paying half the bills AND doing all the housework and childcare, with zero support and commitment from the child’s father

Exactly. Apparently not relying on a man for anything (i.e. expecting nothing and demanding nothing in terms of financial support, housing security, parenting or commitment) makes you an "independent woman". How convenient for the man!

Indeed