To say No to holiday request

[mumto3boysHE]

I run a small family business and have recently expanded enough to take on another member of staff. I could do with some advice please.

This new employee has just finished her 3 months probation. She's doing fine and I can see potential so am generally happy with her so far.

Her holidays are pro rata'd for this year and she has taken all of them already apart from 3 days booked for Christmas which is the same for everyone as we tend to shut down that week.

Now is the start of our busy season, the next 3 months can be a bit manic. In the past we've agreed holidays out of this season and our former employee had always been fine with taking holidays earlier or later in the year.

This year, because we have more staff, I agreed holidays during this period on the basis of only one off at a time and I've had to decline the odd day here and there for this employee because someone else was already off.

She's had 3 days off this week (holiday) and has just messaged me to ask for 2 weeks off unpaid at the end of July.

I get the UNPAID bit, but I have my part timer off at the same time so 2 days a week I'll be 2 people down.

AIBU to say no? And can you help me with some better wording please, rather than just saying absolutely not!

So you wouldn’t allow someone time off when a family member dies or is seriously ill because it would put the business at risk? Like that's what I said! Pshaw!

I'm not sure I've ever heard of a workplace where you could get 2 weeks extra off just because it's unpaid.
we are actively encouraged to take unpaid time off due to savings. Up to 4 weeks. We are also encouraged to get our annual bonus as a holiday so they don't have to pay. It doesn't really align with our work, but totally possible with some jobs in the company.

And as evidenced by the other responses on this thread Rezie, your job is one of very few that would accept this.

It always makes me smile when posters suggest ""ALL the decent employers offer such-and-such now" - it reminds me of the old one about "S'not faaaiiirrr; everyone else's parents ..."

Glad to hear all seems okay for now, OP, but also glad you have someone who may be able to fill in as a temp. Experience teaches you may well need them if a sickie's thrown nearer the time

@mumto3boysHE

Yes staff are different to family but be aware that having very different terms does cause resentment on both sides, the more homogeneous it is the better. I worked once for a small family firm and staff were treated like family, which meant leaving early for school sports was fine but coming in on a Sunday for a last minute rush job was was part of the deal and everyone was salaried, no overtime. This sort of set up doesn't work for everyone but them and us is a recipe for disaster

I would only ever give unpaid leave in extreme circumstances for the individual. So much so, I have never had to do it.

Unpaid leave isn’t an option people can use to have extra holidays. It could be a day or 2 in a dire emergency when all holidays have been used up.

I would view even a request like this as chancerism and I am a very laid back manager about time and holidays.

She knew the rule about holidays when she applied & through the 3 months trial. Now I assume she has a permanent contract she is trying if on.
You have valud reasons for refusing this. However you have to be prepared for her to quit

Unpaid leave isn’t an option people can use to have extra holidays. It could be a day or 2 in a dire emergency when all holidays have been used up
Yes people sometimes forget that just because Leave is unpaid it doesn’t make it ‘cost free’. There’s still the loss of productivity to take into account.

We have compulsory Christmas shut down too but it doesn't come off our a/l allowance, it's given as extra since we don't have a choice.

I think you would not be U to turn down the unpaid request. It's a lovely idea in theory but just can't work in practice.

Just to update...
I spent last week sorting out the pension for her. We discussed how much she could pay in etc and I said I would get my payroll people to work it all out and I'd let her know on Monday. She called me yesterday and handed in her notice, with immediate effect!

She has a new job, starts Monday. It pays more and she needs the money. Absolutely the only reason apparently, but she HAS to start Monday.

That's it, she's gone.

And the time off was for a holiday, not pre-booked, just wanted to go away for a couple of weeks due to some recent problems at home.

Wow OP she's really been quite unfair I think.

Did you advertise for another staff member? I'm sorry she's left you in the lurch.

I have to say I'm back working after 11 years as a SAHM and I am staggered by the amount of staff who expect work to fit round their social lives and whine whenever new rotas come out. It's work, it's an obligation ffs. Some circumstances call for a different approach but they're certainly not the norm!

How much does she owe you for holiday pay?

On the plus side, she owes me a weeks notice plus 5 days holiday so her pay this month will not be great.

And the person I've spoken to about temping can start tomorrow so I think we'll cope in the short term.

A very steep learning curve. Thank you for all the advice, I really appreciate it.

Glad you're not out of pocket and that the temp can fill in, hopefully they're a good employee who stays on!

Not even slightly surprised that she's gone, though it's good news for you and the team - especially as the temp can start so soon

Don't be surprised if she complains about the pay deductions though ...

@Puzzledandpissedoff. I'll take my chances about the pay. The contract states 1 weeks notice and she can't deny she's had the holiday.

Good riddance I think! As long as you give her notice in writing about the deductions.

Sounds luke you've had a lucky escape. She had trouble written all over her!
6 month probation next time?

Better she’s out now rather than potentially causing you ongoing problems I guess....

Another update, even though she's been gone 1 month now. Just had a message from her stating she will be available for full time work from the end of September!

It looks like she gave up a permanent full time job for a very short term temp job! It must have paid exceptionally well.

She's got no chance of getting her old job back... I haven't replied.

The cheek of it!

That's hilarious. Just dont reply best way!

Ooh, she is very cheeky. It would take all my willpower not to reply.

I work for a small family business also. There’s me and one other who do the same job (for different clients). Unless it’s an odd day, we have an informal agreement that we are not to take holiday off at the same time.
I think if your employee is aware of the restrictions on leave during your busy period, she should expect that this is a no. Just the way of the world. I’m 23 so I wouldn’t say in particularly wise or clued in to this but I understand that a business is a business regardless how small/big. The point of a holiday request is that it is a request, not a demand. Maybe let her know the dates it would be possible to take a big chunk on unpaid leave.

@Mermaid70....RTFT....