To say No to holiday request

[mumto3boysHE]

I run a small family business and have recently expanded enough to take on another member of staff. I could do with some advice please.

This new employee has just finished her 3 months probation. She's doing fine and I can see potential so am generally happy with her so far.

Her holidays are pro rata'd for this year and she has taken all of them already apart from 3 days booked for Christmas which is the same for everyone as we tend to shut down that week.

Now is the start of our busy season, the next 3 months can be a bit manic. In the past we've agreed holidays out of this season and our former employee had always been fine with taking holidays earlier or later in the year.

This year, because we have more staff, I agreed holidays during this period on the basis of only one off at a time and I've had to decline the odd day here and there for this employee because someone else was already off.

She's had 3 days off this week (holiday) and has just messaged me to ask for 2 weeks off unpaid at the end of July.

I get the UNPAID bit, but I have my part timer off at the same time so 2 days a week I'll be 2 people down.

AIBU to say no? And can you help me with some better wording please, rather than just saying absolutely not!

Unpaid parental leave requests can be declined for business need and deferred, think it's up to 9 months?

It's a request you're perfectly entitled to say no to it.

We get Christmas off without having to take leave for it. Wasn’t the case at my old company so I know it’s a bonus and everyone’s grateful, good for morale.

Unpaid leave should be for emergenices only. Otherwise it would be a free for all with staff just having as much time of as they fancy. Id clarify your leave policy with her. Id expain that unpaid leave cant be used for extra 'holidays'. Just because shes not being paid doesnt mean its ok if shes not there. She has a contractual obligation to attend work when she is not using her leave entitlement or off sick.

Of course you can refuse but I imagine as she is asking for it unpaid that she is pretty desperate for the time off. I would be surprised if she just wanted a cheap holiday, especially as it over the school holidays.

I'd ask her why she needs the leave and maybe work something out some compromise suchas a few days of leave but not 2 weeks but I appreciate that might be too much hassle for an employee who has only just completed her 3 month probation period.

It may resolve anyways as If it is.so.important to her that she is asking for. unpaid leave, she may leave anyway as there may be a reason it is unworkable for.her. I'd want to talk to her before saying no but I can appreciate you may not.

Unpaid holiday is the same as allowing people to 'buy' holiday - in that, over a 12 month period, they will get more holiday and less salary.

If you view it like that, her 'offer' to take holiday unpaid is turned on it's head.

Mind you, I wouldn't want to go from July to December with no time off either.

@CuriousaboutSamphire no I don’t think “I is speshul” ... I just don’t care too much for money

Parental leave can be deferred for up to 6 months, there is an allowance per child 18 weeks before 18th birthday no more than 4 per year and generally in whole weeks only. A week being defined as the number of days you work on average in a 7 day period so if you work 3 days a week a week parental leave is 3 days, the leave is per child not per job so if in current employment you have used six you can only use the remaining 12 with next employer

You can only postpone for a business reason and they must be given it within 6 months unless the 6 months would go beyond 18 th birthday then it can't be postponed

Say no OP - just "Due to staffing reasons, we can't approve your request for X - Y dates off unpaid leave, the policy of only 1 staff member being on leave at the same time covers both paid and unpaid leave."

At this early on, I wouldn't set a precident of using all your leave early and then 'buying' more if your business can't cope with staff being off for more than their leave allowance.

How to you feed yourself?

Very few people are lucky enough to have the luxury of not having to care enough to work. Those who do usually have another source of financial support, family, state aid or inheritance for example.

Remember you told an employer they were BU for wanting their workforce to actually work and that you'd just take time off sodding the consequences, presumably!

I’d just take it off anyway. Yabu. There is more to life than work

@BellyAching19 - how do you pay bills?

@flowery Can I then use this parental leave for childcare during holidays? I have already been granted annual leave but have now also booked another (essential family holiday) which will put me into negative annual leave. So instead of requesting unpaid leave, I can request the childcare week as unpaid parental leave as that is a valid reason? Hope you understand my jumbled words.

I would never expect and probably would be a rare occasion that I would even ask for unpaid leave. Especially after 3 months. Employers need their staff working.

She may have credible reasons for needing time off but I would question her work ethic.

the leave is per child not per job

The per child bit always gets me. I have a friend who could take 32 weeks off in a year like this, and another who could have 24 weeks. Not saying either of them would try it (they wouldn't).

YANBU. Plenty of workplaces have similar policies, my dh’s is one. He can ask, but he might be told no due to someone else being off.

She's being unreasonable, but I suspect she has childcare issues, might be worth saying no but finding out whether it's for pure pleasure or caring, if the later is there a compromise eg she does 3 days long days a week and makes up remaining hours during August

If she’s better than the part timer than I would ask the part timer to reschedule part of their leave. If you really need all hands on deck during the busy period then cancel all holiday and have all hands on deck. Your policies as they stand won’t allow you to retain good young people who need flexibility.

I make money on the side. Employment is the biggest part on my income of course but I do have other incomes.

WTAF??? I heard of a similar situation recently from a friend - what's wrong with people nowadays that they even think this might be OK? Unpaid leave is not a right - it's not even a thing. A contract of employment means you go to work and your employer pays you. Maybe after years of loyal service you might agree something with your employer at a time convenient to them, but this person has a massive nerve even to ask! Huge CFery!

So the person who cloms not to are about money has several income streams - OK!

claims

We have to take time off for christmas but we get extra Christmas closure days in our holiday so basically get the days paid.

Could you go back with a compromise and say you can have x day off but we can't accommodate the rest?

I don’t care about money. I simply keep my options open so that if one door closes, the bills still get paid! I never said I was making millions but I make enough to not have to rely on one source of income (for situations like this, I’m unreliable, I’ll be the first to admit it!)

There are no children involved so no parental leave. And she's mid 40s, so not just starting out (someone said they thought she would be young). She has previous experience in our field so knows this is the busy period.

It's a good point someone made, unpaid leave would usually be for an emergency so just 1 or 2 days, not a fortnight!

Sorry - parental leave is of course a thing but you have to have worked for your employer for 12 months so not relevant here.....