To believe it is hypocritical to support and use porn as long as it's only made by other people's children?

[StephanieSJW]

I am shocked and dismayed how much porn has become normalised in our society. I am even more saddened by how many "cool feminists" think it is just a bit of harmless fun.

Too many people (even cool mums on Mumsnet) seem to see porn as a convenience to be enjoyed at their will at the click of mouse or swipe of their screen. However they clutch their pearls in horror if you ask them Would you be happy if your daughter were to become a porn star?

Ah yes the argument that sexual exploitation is the same as other exploitation.

The idea that because some bad things happen, all bad things must be allowed.

Drawing equivalence between buying food and paying to see people fuck.

Nothing new here I don't think?

@Fraggling
I read recently that one of the fastest growing categories on one of the popular porn sites is called "Behind the Scenes" - especially if these show young women in tears, upset or in pain after their ordeal filming the main part of the performance.

All such fun and so empowering for women

*Ah yes the argument that sexual exploitation is the same as other exploitation.

The idea that because some bad things happen, all bad things must be allowed.

Drawing equivalence between buying food and paying to see people fuck.

Nothing new here I don't think?*

In no way have I suggested that because some bad things happen, all bad things must be allowed...
IMHO it's hypocritical to criticise one for doing something while the person criticising engages in equally bad practices just in different field.

Being beaten, threaten, abused and work 12 hours a day 7 days a week with barely any food given to you is imho comparable to sex industry exploitation.

The thing is when you watch porn you are potentially watching the exploitation first hand.

For plenty of consumers of porn this is an aspect they enjoy. At the lesser end that the woman might not enjoy it (this is explicit in many porn titles) to seeking out content where the women are distressed.

It's the same as going to a factory where abuse is happening, seeing the abuse and then buying the clothing.

It's a false parallel.

The race to the bottom thing is also a crap idea.

StephanieSJW I disagree it’s a derail, it’s on the subject of porn so still relevant. It’s about wider context of the topic at hand. But if you don’t fancy answering it that’s your choice. No need to patronise.

Please feel free to start your own thread about who knows the most pornstars. This thread is addressed to parents on a parental website who use or support porn. The question to them is Is it hypocritical for you to use / support porn if you wouldn't want your own children to become pornstars?

A lot of porn is exploitation and is just sickening. I really don't believe that most people who watch porn are limiting themselves to "ethical porn" (which I don't agree with either actually because it still harms society as a whole). Everyone has their own moral boundaries. I have an acquaintance who is absolutely horrified that I eat meat. He, on the other hand, has no qualms at all about using cocaine - another industry where it is known that the consumer contributes to the exploitation of human beings. Some people are just happy to look the other way.

Ok, well enjoy your screaming into the abyss

And I would support my children if they chose sex work. It wouldn’t be my first choice for their careers of course but they’re adults with their own agency and I would speak to them about why they wanted to go into it and ensure they understood the difficulties of the work they are doing.

Personally I believe you should talk to people and find out why they make the choices they do, rather than make generalisations based on your own opinions.

Personally I believe you should talk to people and find out why they make the choices they do, rather than make generalisations based on your own opinions.

Me too. Which is why I am against porn.

timeforakinderworld absolutely, I’m not mad about porn either but if my kids chose to do it I would want to learn more.

@Buddytheelf85

I never quite believe the super-cool ‘once my kid’s an adult, I’m happy with all their decisions’ brigade. You often see it on MN. ‘My daughter’s working webcams and I think she might be addicted to heroin.’ ‘Chill out OP, she’s an adult, she can make her own decisions.’

Me neither Buddytheelf85.

I speculate what their family What's App or Facebook update would be
..

Our little darling, India Honeysuckle, got her GCSEs today. All 9's!!! Obvs. My DH Sebastian I are also delighted that our darling Honey Boo is so empowered and has so much personal agency - she's decided to become a PORN STAR!!! She is starting out in the ethical stuff but Sebastian (something of an expert on the topic) has advised her where the BIG money and career prospects lie. See you all soon!! You'll be seeing a LOT more of Honey Boo!!! Do give her a like on Slutload!!!

Ok, so you’re not interested in actual debate or considering questions about alternative viewpoints - your only interesting in barking at people that they’re derailing or dismissing them as ‘cool mums’ and mocking them. These issues are nuanced, it’s not always black and white. Rather than write ‘hilarious’ hypothetical fb posts you could instead engage with the questions at hand. After all this is AIBU, not ‘can you be my echo chamber’.

I’m out ✌🏻 Enjoy your cool mum fanfics

@Sparklesocks
Personally I believe you should talk to people and find out why they make the choices they do, rather than make generalisations based on your own opinions

@Sparklesocks
This thread is not aimed at pornstars themselves. I do not purport to speculate why anyone would chose that line of work. This thread is aimed at PARENTS WHO USE OR SUPPORT PORN. The questions to them is Is it hypocritical for you to expect others to provide you with porn if you would not want this career choice for your own children?

Please do let me know if this is not clear.

I'm not sure how the OP was supposed to frame her question if she's not allowed to use the word 'children' to mean 'person you gave birth to/adopted'? It absolutely is a derail to get hung up on her wording, and comes across as a way of trying to avoid the uncomfortable truth that most parents would be pretty upset/worried if they found out that their (adult) child worked in porn. I'm yet to ask a new acquaintance "so what does your daughter/son do then?" and have them announce with a beam of pride "they're a porn star, do look them up under Extreme Anal Gaping on Pornhub".

Those of you who truly believe that once your child reaches 18 then what they do is entirely up to them - do you speak to your (under-18) children about porn? If so, how are you framing those conversations if you think porn is a valid career choice? Or are you leaving them to get on with it and letting both your sons and daughters grow up think that today's porn reflects a healthy, desirable sex life?

Porn is damaging at a societal level, not just an individual one. It normalises attitudes of commodification towards women in particular (notwithstanding that young men are also trafficked and coerced into porn, which is no less saddening and reprehensible) and emphasises imbalances of power, including economic power. I've no doubt there are some women within porn who have genuine agency, but they are the minority in the same way the myth of the Happy Hooker does not reflect the reality of most prostitutes. However it suits porn consumers to believe that the people they fap to are all 100% willing participants, because what does it say about you otherwise if your sexual gratification is more important than the possibility the person onscreen might be trafficked, coerced, drugged, raped or have made a 'choice' out of economic necessity that will almost certainly leave them psychologically and physically damaged in a way that most other routes out of poverty will not?

I'm not sure anyone has clutched pearls though. You keep asking this same question and ignoring the answers because it isn't what you want to hear and instead insult, bully and criticise other posters.
Op, you very obviously have some personal issues around porn but you need to accept that not everyone is going to agree with your very narrow minded view of the world and you can't just shoot and bully to change minds. Many, many people are actually reasonable and willing to debate the topic but you are not willing to engage with the debate.

I actually have more respect for the few posters who have said "I wouldn't have a problem with my child becoming a porn star" - even though I'm not sure I believe them

@codenameduchess
Very happy to debate and hear your views.
Remind me which category you are...

There are ONLY THREE possible positions in this debate.

1) I support and use porn but do not see anything hypocritical in only expecting other people's children to provide this for my pleasure.

2) I would be happy for my own children to go into the porn industry

3) I think porn is deeply damaging to society and individuals

'And I would support my children if they chose sex work.'

Prostition is v dangerous.

Study after study all over the world tells us this. Common sense also tells us this.

Rape is extremely common, violence. Murder rates are higher than the general population. I have read that exited women have high rates of PTSD.

Seems totally right to be 100% suppotive of a decision to become a prostitute.

Yes you could say the same in terms of danger in armed forces or diving for oil rigs. I'm not sure that's the point though. Those things both have purpose outside of serving male entitlement to buy people usually women and girls to facilitate an orgasm.

Hmm.

Men as a group do seem to think their dicks are very very important. Always have.

So maybe to lots of men, being provided with humans to make their penises happy is an aim in a par with World peace.

Read or view any mainstream male led media esp scifi and you start to realise that this is a preoccupation, now I come to think of it! Future fantasy societies either contain women who are mainly prostitutes and where rape in common (dystopian) or ones where utopia invariably involves young beautiful women who like to have sex all the time... I've read and watched a lot of sci fi from 50s to present day and this is frequent enough to be noticable!

To believe it is hypocritical to support and use porn as long as it's only made by other people's children? (144 Posts)

There is porn and there is porn. There is working in the general mainstream industry in a particular country, and then there is the amateur couple who might sell clips of themselves on a site.

Yes it probably is a bit hypocritical if you watch porn (or a kind of porn) but wouldn't be comfortable about the thought of your own children doing it.

But then, aren't parents allowed to be this?

Ask people whether they would want their daughters having frequent ONS where they go off with unknown men and not everyone will give you an enthusiastic yes. Not even the people who were no strangers to that sort of thing themselves.

What does that prove about anything though, other than the fact that when it comes to their own daughters, people can tend to be a bit more "wary" than they would be for the general female population. Amd/or themselves.

I've previously posted about a friend who worked in the porn industry as a young woman by choice. As it doesn't support your narrow view you ignored it. She worked for many years and found it an incredibly supportive environment, it gave her a lot of other opportunities and she was always kept safe- both physically and emotionally, never made to feel like she had to do anything.

Not all porn is bad is the fundamental point you are missing. Yes there is a subset where the actors are not willing participants but that is not all porn, the reputable producers and distributors are not child molesting rapists. Women need to be empowered, shown that we are not objects but also that we can enjoy sex, be proud of our bodies and do whatever we want for our own purposes not just because men might like it.

There are not only 3 options. I would support whatever my children decide to do with their lives, as long as it's their choice and they are safe doing it. I would be more supportive of a child working sensibly in adult entertainment than the armed forces or reality tv.

Well you wouldn’t watch a porno with your own kids in it would you?

@codenameduchess
What is the fourth option?

'Women need to be empowered, shown that we are not objects but also that we can enjoy sex,'

Hahahahaha go on any of the mainstream sites, see the clips. Read the titles.

There is nothing empowering for women, it is nothing to do with women enjoying sex. Mainstream porn is about male sexual dominance. And that's it.