To believe it is hypocritical to support and use porn as long as it's only made by other people's children?

[StephanieSJW]

I am shocked and dismayed how much porn has become normalised in our society. I am even more saddened by how many "cool feminists" think it is just a bit of harmless fun.

Too many people (even cool mums on Mumsnet) seem to see porn as a convenience to be enjoyed at their will at the click of mouse or swipe of their screen. However they clutch their pearls in horror if you ask them Would you be happy if your daughter were to become a porn star?

'whose workers are mostly happy in their jobs.'

Source please that globally most 'Sex workers' are happy in their jobs. For people at the sharp end please, I know that 'Sex workers' includes lots of people who are not having physical contact and pimps etc

I wouldn't want my daughters or sons to be involved, but there are a lot of things I don't want them involved with. As long as it's between consenting adults, can't see the issue.

Being exploited as a sex slave is one thing, joining a legal brother willingly another. Might not be my thing, but it's legal and doesn't hurt anyone.

A few celebrities have released had sex tapes "leaked" to the media. Their choice.

Reapers you haven't addressed why you are so keen for young people and children to see doing porn on a day morning as the same as working in boots.

That's what you mean when you say normalised. Obviously, as that is what it means.

Porn, in its current state, very much hurts everyone. The damage is more obvious for women and girls, but it has a major negative impact on men and boys too.

I wouldn’t be thrilled, but if she was doing something she enjoyed, and was able to do it on her terms, then ok.
There are a great many female porn stars who are able to have enjoy sex on camera and benefit financially. It’s not true to say every woman involved in porn is in danger, trafficked and on drugs. As long as they understand the flip side of it being recognised by a random in the petrol station down the road...possibly finding it more difficult to have a relationship...being able to ignore those who judge...

The idea that women enjoy the things done to them in mainstream porn (slappling, strangling, being ejaculated over, having cock forced down throat, anal with no preo etc) is causing a massive problem for young women and girls, and also, is fucking up our legal system when it comes to vawg. Recently lots of men putting she wanted it down as defence to murder by strangulation etc and this being widely accepted in press and court even though she's not there to say. Really ludicrous situations being accepted by juries in rape cases as likely.

This is a very bad outcome of the proliferation of violent degrading porn.

I mean some women do obviously but most don't.

And certainly most girls don't as part of early sexual experiences.

Coercion is rife, neither boys nor girls expect girls to enjoy it, but expect it anyway, a&e visits due to injury are up, anal tears etc.

This is not a nothing.

neither boys nor girls expect girls to enjoy it, but expect it anyway

sometimes I feel like i am living in a different world than some posters. You do realise that it's not NORMAL for most boys, girls, men, women? I am sure some people do enjoy it, some don't but it happens, but it's not normal or common!

What's not normal?

@that25cUKHeatwaveof2019 anal is pretty normal and common and has been around since the first time a penis was put in a vagina. Anal is not a 'new' thing. Just like in the same vein gay sex is not a 'new thing'

Can we stop acting like anal is not a common event? Because trust me, outside of the mumsnet pearl (necklace) clutchers of mumsnet, it really, really is. And I'm not talking porn anal... I'm talking about in a loving or fun sexual relationship.

@StephanieSJWStephanieSJW

I am shocked and dismayed how much porn has become normalised in our society. I am even more saddened by how many "cool feminists" think it is just a bit of harmless fun.

Too many people (even cool mums on Mumsnet) seem to see porn as a convenience to be enjoyed at their will at the click of mouse or swipe of their screen. However they clutch their pearls in horror if you ask themWould you be happy if your daughter were to become a porn star?

Why are you only concerned about a daughter being a Porn star...would you not be concerned if someone's son became a Porn star....or is has that not got enough sensationalism for you?

Tallgreen it was specifically anal with no prep that was in the list.

Porn does not give a reasonable impression of how to do it so that there's minimal pain /chance of injury.

Girls are getting injured as a result. Or I should say, boys are injuring them.

This is not OK.

No boys asked for /pressed for anal when I was a girl.

Women who are going back to dating after long time out say that men's expectations around sex are completely different.

This is all due to porn, I mean it's obvious.

When I was a girl it was blow jobs /'doggy' that the boys all wanted a 'go' at.

I'm really glad I'm not having to deal with the demands these days. I do have 2 dd though.

Tallgreenbottle

we are not talking about the same thing at all.
We are talking about coercion, so basically rape.

I know the legal system in the UK has some weird concept of what constitutes rape, but pretty sure not consensual sex, anal or else, is still rape.

Women who are going back to dating after long time out say that men's expectations around sex are completely different.

This is all due to porn, I mean it's obvious.

?!?? most ridiculous thing I've read on MN this week. Your friend Sheila having 2 extremely bad dates doesn't mean you can safely know and describe the dating scene and "men"...

Oh wow what a patronising, nasty little post.

I think we've got your number, now.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-majority-of-sex-workers-enjoy-their-job-why-should-we-find-that-surprising-10083175.html

When asked to describe their work, respondents typically selected positive or neutral words. 91 per cent of sex workers described their work as ‘flexible’, 66 per cent described it as ‘fun’ and over half find their job ‘rewarding’.

www.vice.com/en_us/article/evqzq4/what-being-a-sex-worker-taught-me-about-men

"To believe all sex workers are inherently victimized by their profession invalidates the experiences of those who have been. Sex workers, though at greater risk for victimization due to the criminalized and stigmatized nature of their work—are, on an average day, no more or less harassed or put upon than any other woman living in this sexist world. "

junkee.com/like-sex-worker-support-studies/124212

"I have found sex work incredibly rewarding. It’s a job that allows flexibility, and allows me a (usually) constant stream of money that pays for uni expenses and the cost of living."

www.huffpost.com/entry/some-people-enjoy-being-prostitutes_b_1405004

"I choose to do sex work, where I set my price and hours and vacation time myself (particularly in the U.S., where we have one of the lowest vacation time minimums in the Western world). I say, “This is what an hour of my time is worth to me,” and if a person disagrees, they call someone else. "

www.insider.com/what-its-like-to-work-in-a-brothel-sex-worker-2018-1

"She writes that her work is "stigmatizing, degrading, difficult, and the best thing I've ever done with my life.""

Now maybe you could rethink stating something you have no experience with?

I watch porn and have no issue with my husband watching it. As far as my children go, as adults they’ll have been equipped to make their own choices.

If someone wants to judge me and/or call me a ‘cool wife’ then by all means go for it. It’s not like it has an impact on my life whatsoever, it’s just to make said sneerer feel morally superior. Knock yourself out

The "somebody else's child" is weird in this context, you're talking about adults, yes? If you need to use emotive language to make a point then maybe you need to reconsider the point. I dont like porn because I believe a lot of it harms the people who make it and the people who use it. The fact that they were once children has nothing to do with it.

People disapproved of black rights, ending slavery, gay people but we normalized it anyway.
What a ridiculous argument. All 3 of those were about respecting people's right to freedom which had been curtailed because of who they are - you can't choose not to be black or gay. You can certainly choose not to participate in sex work (unless we're talking about sexual slavery and coercion which you're not).

Some men annoy me.
They go on about how they want their own daughter to be treated with respect and that he doesn’t want her to ever have sex. You know the type of man I’m on about. Weird over protective macho man who thinks he has control over his daughter.
Then they go and treat someone else’s daughter like shit. And they also want lots of sex! Ermmm 🤔....

If you need to use emotive language to make a point then maybe you need to reconsider the point.

It’s not said to make it emotive. Or, not exactly. For most of us, our children are the most important people in our lives. Even when they’re grown up they’re still our children. So this not question just asks you to consider why, if you wouldn’t put the most important person in your life in this position, you would participate as someone else’s “most important person” went through it.

Now you can be pro porn or anti, but I think you need a better answer to the above than “She (or he) is an adult.”

@Manclife1
Don’t want my son to flip burgers for a leaving but I’ll still buy from McDonalds.

This statement perfectly sums up the condescending attitude of privilege and entitlement I am calling out.

I am sure that you and your husband have far, far more high status and fulfilling jobs than people who work in McDonald's. You may not be able to contain your sneers and sniggers when you place your order. But please bear in mind that serving another person food (be it cheap, economical and unpretentious) is how millions of people pay their bills, put food on the table, clothe their children and keep a roof over their heads.

Be wary of the lesson you teach your privileged children....
Looking darling Verity Tulip! Aren't you lucky you were born to a Mumsnet Mum. We have other people to serve us in restaurants and we have other people perform sex acts for our pleasure. Aren't we lucky, darling?

This statement perfectly sums up the condescending attitude of privilege and entitlement I am calling out.

What a very strange attitude towards people who want the best for their kids.

I don't want my kids to work for McDonald, I don't want my kids to work in a factory, or in an Amazon warehouse, I don't want them in a mine, I don't want them struggling on a 0-hour contract feeling that they are stuck.

There's no such thing as luck, there's hard work and not settling.

What a weird parent are you if you wish your kids to have a shit life, instead of giving them all the opportunities you can so they can chose something they enjoy and give them a comfortable life.

I don't specially want my kids in porn either.