12th of July

[starbuckslover]

Apologies for posting this in AIBU, I was sure where to put it but..

AIBU form not understanding why people in Northern Ireland still celebrate the 12th of July (and the 11th night), in such an epic fashion? A country that voted for and signed the Good Friday Agreement, begging for peace to then light bonfires burning Irish flags, and marching gleefully in memory of a war that resulted in the death and oppression of goodness knows how many Catholics, is more than a little hypocritical?

How can this still be happening? I know people who are so anxious about brexit as it could upset the peace process who are out watching the marches today..how?!

Also, most place in NI are integrated now so Protestant and Catholic people are living as neighbours. How can these Protestant people go to parades that celebrate their neighbour's persecution...

I would fee the same if there were catholic parades for the same thing...so I am really not on one side or the other.

If anyone can help me to understand how such a huge group of (many) educated, sensible people (I know lots aren't, but many are normal everyday, semi-liberal citizens), can be so hypocritical I would be very grateful...🤷‍♀️

you're not in their minds, sorry but people in the Republic are kind of irrelevant to them.

You have to take responsibility for how your actions are being reasonably interpreted by other people, regardless of what you mean by them.

The 12th brings out certain types of people who have nothing else to do with their days than plan their drinking session around the bonfire and act like fucking arseholes.

No flag should be burnt ever, not the tri colour nor the union jack.

@Moralitym1n1 - Not sure if language is a tradition.

Of course language is part of tradition.

Personally I have no problem with dual language, but I do have a problem with Sinn Fein setting up jobs for the boys in lucrative political and legal positions for the ex terrorists who murdered and maimed our country people, and who all happened to study Irish in the maze etc during their imprisonment.

Just one response to that - cash for ash.

IRA ex- prisoners are not the only ones who speak Irish. If the British had not banned Irish education and does their best to obliterate it, many more would still speak it.

There are ex-terrorists fro both sides, as well as state agents, who murdered and maimed. Many of these are getting "jobs for the boys". The whole point of the GFA was to move on. Attitudes like yours make that very difficult.

@ineedtostopbeingsolazy totally agree, and that's the most educated statement I've seen in this thread, and repeated and ignored several times,
History is history for a reason.

Although I will say there are many many people who watch the parades who are not arseholes, they don't burn flags and are not sectarian.
They don't go to the bonfires either.

*@Moralitym1n1 your an educated lady, I'm the dim witted southerner, do you really want me to simplify it for you,

Ireland both north and south gorgeous country filled with great people,

Irish flag being burned, direct attack of our country and it's people,

Not all catholics are terrorists, pride shown in our country and flag, (see above) regarding attack of us as a nation of Irish*

That's it simplified?! No wonder I was having trouble following you.

No, that's it changed for how you want it to be/see it/ it don't know what ..

Let me alter that to how it actually stands legally, constitutionally in 2019 ...

Ireland both north and south gorgeous country filled with great people,

Irish flag being burned, direct attack of our country and it's people,

Not all catholics are terrorists, pride shown in our country and flag, (see above) regarding attack of us as a nation of Irish*

That's it simplified?! No wonder I was having trouble following you.

No, that's it changed for how you want it to be/see it/ it don't know what ..you seem to be in cloud cuckoo land.

Both the Republic of Ireland and the state Northern Ireland are gorgeous countries filled with great people,

Irish flag being burned, direct attack on the Republic of Ireland and it's people (it's not intended to be by those unionists but I've explained many times to no avail so ...)

Not all catholics are terrorists, pride shown in our country and flag, (see above) regarding attack of us as a nation of Irish
Who said all Catholics are terrorists??!!!

The tricolour is the flag of the Republic of Ireland. Northern Ireland had its own flag and also uses the union jack. Catholics in northern Ireland who fly the tricolour are not flying the flag of their country of residence. If they wish to reside in the Republic of Ireland they can move where they can fly the tricolour and it will be their country's flag. It is not their country's flag while living in northern Ireland and the UK.

You seem to have a fundamental lack of understanding about the most basic politics and sovereignty of our countries.

@ineedtostopbeingsolazy totally, most people go to the parades for the colour, the music, tradition but not for the deep rooted meaning behind it,

Education is key here, most of them don't even know the relevance to the fires and the flag burning, but participate only to cause trouble and harm,

Unless you lived through the troubles directly you will never get it, there is not a book in the world that can discribe the reality

I'm glad you've pointed that out.

Some of the posters on this thread from the Republic of Ireland have evidently not. Growing up in Derry/Londonderry from 1976, unfortunately I have. (I am very lucky not to have been personally affected by any murders etc.)

@Moralitym1n1

As people who reside in NI can claim both Irish and British citizenship, perhaps they should be allowed to fly flags that represent their nationality, as opposed to the flag of their residence?

Burning a flag is wrong no matter what way you look at it. If our terrorist organisations had their own flags and they were burned on a bonfire then that would be understandable...but that isn't what happens..

Time to listen to logic I think?

Sorry I've accidentally posted the same content twice in one post above.

Catholics in northern Ireland who fly the tricolour are not flying the flag of their country of residence. If they wish to reside in the Republic of Ireland they can move where they can fly the tricolour and it will be their country's flag. It is not their country's flag while living in northern Ireland and the UK.

Newsflash: the GFA enshrines the right of people in NI to be Irish or British, or both. So anyone who feels themselves to be Irish can in fact fly their country’s flag in flying the Irish tricolour.

You’re sounding more bigoted with every post - this is reminiscent of Ian Paisley circa 1964. The Flags and Emblems Act was repealed in the 80s, FYI.

onesailwait
That is sad and sadder still because it's not an uncommon story. I always think as long as we bring our kids up to recognise sectarianism for the evil it is, and to challenge it, we've done our bit. These old bigots thrive on hatred, tragic really.

As people who reside in NI can claim both Irish and British citizenship

Only because of the Republic of Ireland's constitutional.claim on northern Ireland.

Which unionists obviously find offensive, deeply threatening etc.

No unionists go for dual citizenship, you understand that, right?

They're just a bunch of thugs. Same as football hooligans. Fat bellies, nasty tattoos, alcohol ravaged ruddy faces, right wing arseholes.

So anyone who feels themselves to be Irish can in fact fly their country’s flag in flying the Irish tricolour.

Anyone who feels they're Irish, should perhaps move out of the United Kingdom. Does anywhere else UK tolerate people habitually flying another country's flag and claiming citizenship of it?

Does the Republic of Ireland tolerate it?

Would any other country tolerate it?

If they wish to reside in the Republic of Ireland they can move where they can fly the tricolour and it will be their country's flag. It is not their country's flag while living in northern Ireland and the UK.

Except for those people who were born and raised in northern Ireland and who have Irish citizenship, as is their right?

Would you (presuming you're a citizen of the Republic of Ireland) be ok with citizens of another country flying their flag in your country while actively supporting the dissolution of your country??

Ludicrous.

Only because of the Republic of Ireland's constitutional.claim on northern Ireland.

NEWSFLASH: the Republic of Ireland gave up its constitutional claim on Northern Ireland in 1998.

That degree in Irish history might need a bit of updating...

PS plenty of unionists have Irish passports. Paisley Jr positively encourages it!

I've not read the full thread and tbh I don't want to - I lost all faith in it upon seeing the second poster suggesting it's the norm to commentate wars, as if that's what's happening here... it's a festival to celebrate the mass killing of catholics. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's a disgusting and barbaric tradition, especially when it spills over into Glasgow and is picked up on by all the knuckle draggers and hangers on over here. I am completed astounded that it's still allowed to happen in this day and age and absolutely nothing makes me more frustrated that seeing it turned into a 'family' day out and people subjecting they're children to it.

Fuck the 12th

Anyone who feels they're Irish, should perhaps move out of the United Kingdom.

There’s that bigotry again. Loud and clear. Thankfully the majority of people in NI don’t think like you.

@Moralitym1n1

Someone in my village (in Europe), is flying an Australian flag outside their house, I'm guessing they might be Australian...shockingly no one has a problem with this.

It's funny how unionists are allowed to find things like a flag flying offensive or "deeply threatening" but Catholics or Irish people who state that aspects of these parades such as burning said flags make them feel that way are told they are ignorant and stupid. Not biased at all

@AfterSchoolWorry amen to that

@Moralitym1n1 again I wish no rudeness, this debate Wil never come to a common ground, you have a degree in Irish history, like I said no books will ever teach you the real unabridged version

I've a masters in the story of life experience, I seen it, I lived it, the guns the soldiers, the bombs, and worst of all the fear, your education came from books thank god mine came from reality,

So please don't insult my intelligence like those uneducated bigots burning my countries flag tonight, for what ever reason they believe it to be, the tricolour is the flag of the people of Ireland terrorist, political good bad or indifferent it means fuck all difference to them,

As for the Good Friday agreement, many people did not and do not support it.

Just like many people did not and do not support Brexit or any other controversial political deal.