12th of July

[starbuckslover]

Apologies for posting this in AIBU, I was sure where to put it but..

AIBU form not understanding why people in Northern Ireland still celebrate the 12th of July (and the 11th night), in such an epic fashion? A country that voted for and signed the Good Friday Agreement, begging for peace to then light bonfires burning Irish flags, and marching gleefully in memory of a war that resulted in the death and oppression of goodness knows how many Catholics, is more than a little hypocritical?

How can this still be happening? I know people who are so anxious about brexit as it could upset the peace process who are out watching the marches today..how?!

Also, most place in NI are integrated now so Protestant and Catholic people are living as neighbours. How can these Protestant people go to parades that celebrate their neighbour's persecution...

I would fee the same if there were catholic parades for the same thing...so I am really not on one side or the other.

If anyone can help me to understand how such a huge group of (many) educated, sensible people (I know lots aren't, but many are normal everyday, semi-liberal citizens), can be so hypocritical I would be very grateful...🤷‍♀️

*Lambeg drum. Not Lambeth drum. Lambeth has a walk, not a drum.

With apologies to the good people from that proud London Borough*

Lambeth Walk was a fucking shithole shopping precinct of about twenty empty shops and fifteen smackheads and alcoholics scattered over the pavement, dancing out of time, out of their heads and screaming abuse at anybody foolish enough to walk through it in the 90s, too.

Seems appropriate for an attitude that is so ingrained in some people that there are bars in London where punters have called me all manner of things when I've walked past because they've decided in their wisdom that I have to be Irish/Catholic because of having red hair and freckles and it's therefore OK because, well, history.

It's not that much different to BNP/Britain First/EDL/Whatever the fuck the racists are calling themselves this week claiming they want to celebrate their 'heritage', IMO and they can fuck right off.

@Moralitym1n1 - and what about the effigy's of the Pope that are burnt?

It's not about the Republic of Ireland !!!!
It's not about you!!

Yeah keep saying that. Doesn't make it true lol. As I said, we all know what it represents and it has no place in this day and age so you can go away with your gaslighting and patronising tone

It is yourself who is coming across as unbelievably ignorant (and rude) btw.

The areas that fly that flag are no go to protestants. They were (and some still are) dangerous for the police .. people from the areas that fly that flag tried to kill my policeman uncle ....many protestants and all unionists associate that flag with danger, emnity, threat (and Catholics the opposite for areas with union jacks) ....
Do you not get that?????

Why am I wasting my time trying to explain this to clueless southerners.

Yeah keep saying that. Doesn't make it true lol

Ditto.

You've just illustrated my point.

@Moralitym1n1 please don't find me rude, but it is about us, by association, as Irish people, not us. As catholics or even Protestants, that's the Irish flag? The flag of the Irish people, we show pride in it all over the world, it represents us, and yes, Sinn Fein, the IRA ETC, but us as normal ordinary Irish people, it's carried at the Olympic, at the rugby games, football, st Patrick's day, all over the world the tricolour represents us,

so you can go away with your gaslighting and patronising tone

Oh sorry, did you just tell me to go away; off a Mumsnet thread .... Seriously are an adult? Should you be out of bed at this time?

• are you an adult

Why am I wasting my time trying to explain this to clueless southerners.

Well your bigotry and agenda is showing. Oh thank God you are here to educate us ignorant , dim witted "Southerners" about our own history and feelings and instruct us in all the ways that we are wrong.

@ceilihouse

I appreciate your civility - unlike other posters who wonder why you would respond in a frustrated angry manned to their own offensive, rude manner ...

But back to the point I've already made - it really isn't about the Republic of Ireland (aside from the vague potential threat hanging over unionists that Sinn Fein might succeed in destroying northern Ireland and joining with the Republic of Ireland some day in the not very very distant future), it really isn't about you.

To you the tricolour (ironically representing the union/peace between nationalism - green - and unionism - orange) is your national flag; which also happens to be the flag the Irish republican movement, including terrorists, uses in NI.

To unionists the tricolour is the flag that represents the Irish republican movement, including terrorists, in NI .. and also happens to be the Republic of Ireland's national flag. It's not their main focus at all.

@fromeden

Plenty of southerners are knowledgeable; just not you. I'd never tar all my friends, relatives and acquaintances who are from the Republic with the same brush as you.

The same way they feel when sinn Fein tries to make Irish an equal.language in northern Ireland

Careful, your bigotry is showing

@Moralitym1n1 - The same way they feel when sinn Fein tries to make Irish an equal.language in northern Ireland,

So recognising unionist and protestant traditions is OK but recognising nationalist and Catholic traditions isn't?

Morality you are being disingenuous (as if the OO don’t hate the Irish as much as they hate the IRA) and are totally missing the point. Is there really any need in this day and age to be marching or burning flags at all of any description? it’s a joke and it’s about time normal people who live here (myself included) stood up and said enough is enough to these twits on both sides holding the country’s future to ransom.

To unionists oh and little clue there, I didn't say "to us" .. you've jumped to huge assumptions because I've pointed out that you do not understand how Northern Irish unionists view/feel about the tricolour and clearly cannot employ the slightest empathy .. I'm not a unionist, I'm related to people in the Republic, I'm from a mixed religion background, I've studied Irish history extensively etc. (And the policeman uncle I mentioned was also in a mixed religion marriage when they threatened his life... I just think you're ignorant and arrogant.

Parents are from NI, 12th July used to be the time to get the feck out of there. It was literally dangerous to be catholic when the bang drumming shite was going on. I hope things have progressed.

To unionists the tricolour is the flag that represents the Irish republican movement, including terrorists, in NI .. and also happens to be the Republic of Ireland's national flag. It's not their main focus at all.

Oh "it just happens" to be the national flag of the republic eh? What a coincidence. So unfortunate that to Irish people and indeed, the rest of the world, it represents our country. But yeah, burning it is no big deal according to you. Thanks for the education

@Moralitym1n1 yes but I feel your missing the point,

The Tricolour, - the flag of the Republic of Ireland, yes again it's used by association to Sinn Fein and IRA
BUT and a big BUT it also represents me as a person, an Irish person, with strong pride in my country and my flag, like any other person in any other country

The TRICOLOUR, and my pride towards it, does not make me a terrorist, or a supporter, or political, it just represents me as a person from my birthplace/country,

For British/OO/etc to put my flag on a bomb fire to burn today/tonight is a direct attack on me and my gorgeous country and the amazing people that live here both north and south,
There is no sinage in any bombfire in the north tonight saying sorry it's not about you! Because it is, the sad reality is they burn that flag to burn the Irish catholics, sad as it may be, but it's the truth,

So recognising unionist and protestant traditions is OK but recognising nationalist and Catholic traditions isn't?

Not sure if language is a tradition. Personally I have no problem with dual language, but I do have a problem with Sinn Fein setting up jobs for the boys in lucrative political and legal positions for the ex terrorists who murdered and maimed our country people, and who all happened to study Irish in the maze etc during their imprisonment.

For British/OO/etc to put my flag on a bomb fire to burn today/tonight is a direct attack on me and my gorgeous country and the amazing people that live here both north and south

What?!

Because it is, the sad reality is they burn that flag to burn the Irish catholics, sad as it may be, but it's the truth

No it's not, they burn that flag because it represents Irish nationalism Inc it's terrorist factions to them; that's the truth. But i clearly have not been able to ameliorate your view, detached as you are from the situation in northern ireland, and it's just so pointless to continue trying so ..

@Moralitym1n1 your an educated lady, I'm the dim witted southerner, do you really want me to simplify it for you,

Ireland both north and south gorgeous country filled with great people,

Irish flag being burned, direct attack of our country and it's people,

Not all catholics are terrorists, pride shown in our country and flag, (see above) regarding attack of us as a nation of Irish,

The TRICOLOUR, and my pride towards it, does not make me a terrorist, or a supporter, or political, it just represents me as a person from my birthplace/country,

Seriously what on earth are you talking about? I know that, most unionists know that, you're not in their minds, sorry but people in the Republic are kind of irrelevant to them.

No it's not, they burn that flag because it represents Irish nationalism Inc it's terrorist factions to them; that's the truth.

It’s a pity that the “Kill All Taigs” insignia on and around loyalist bonfires doesn’t fit this picture you’re painting of the poor benighted PUL.

@Moralitym1n1 it's time for me to bow out of this conversation as it's a double edged sword,

Unless you lived through the troubles directly you will never get it, there is not a book in the world that can discribe the reality,

You continue to disrespect and disregard the different entitlements for want of a better word each different allegiance to the tricolour some good some bad, In burning the flag for what ever reason they use, they burn it as a collective to all that honour and stand by it, they cannot say oh we burn it because of the Ira and Sinn Fein oh but not because of you cause your just a normal Irish Catholic we don't mean to offend you!