12th of July

[starbuckslover]

Apologies for posting this in AIBU, I was sure where to put it but..

AIBU form not understanding why people in Northern Ireland still celebrate the 12th of July (and the 11th night), in such an epic fashion? A country that voted for and signed the Good Friday Agreement, begging for peace to then light bonfires burning Irish flags, and marching gleefully in memory of a war that resulted in the death and oppression of goodness knows how many Catholics, is more than a little hypocritical?

How can this still be happening? I know people who are so anxious about brexit as it could upset the peace process who are out watching the marches today..how?!

Also, most place in NI are integrated now so Protestant and Catholic people are living as neighbours. How can these Protestant people go to parades that celebrate their neighbour's persecution...

I would fee the same if there were catholic parades for the same thing...so I am really not on one side or the other.

If anyone can help me to understand how such a huge group of (many) educated, sensible people (I know lots aren't, but many are normal everyday, semi-liberal citizens), can be so hypocritical I would be very grateful...🤷‍♀️

@ceilihouse absolutely nothing wrong with a united Ireland. As an Irish nationalist / soft republican it's what I want. 🇮🇪
The Protestant working class are so petrified of it. Their 'precious' Union is so important to them when in reality, the brits would give anything to get rid of the 6 counties!

if you want to be Irish, it would make sense to move into the the Republic of Ireland.

Not really. Aside from the fact that people born in northern Ireland have a right to Irish citizenship, it is not a pre requisite to live in the country of which you are a citizen. I myself am Irish and have lived in Ireland, Australia the UK, and now the US. Still irish. Imagine that.

the brits would give anything to get rid of the 6 counties!

Very true. At the root of much of their behaviour is fear.

I find it amazing any 'historian' ...

Which historian?

Do you think someone who's done a first degree in history and politics is a historian?

@FromEden

I was referring to more than paper citizenship, as I'm sure you're aware.

As an Irish nationalist / soft republican it's what I want.

What do you think the advantages would be?

moralitym1n1

Historians study the past and look over evidence in order to answer all kinds of historical questions. While many historians are professionals with graduate degrees, it's also possible to become a historian with a set of skills learned outside the traditional classroom

So yes, I do!

Ha ha ha! But I am Irish you see, as evidenced by my passport. And given that land was taken from my ancestors, they weren't allowed to speak their native language, be educated or hold many jobs, to create your blessed union, why the hell would I be for it?! The fact still remains that it's where my family descends from, I love many aspects of it, and I celebrate being Irish! No notion of moving, cheers all the same.

moralitym1n1

....but like many previous posters, I severely doubt your credentials.

Have to agree with dia a few posts above. The 2 communities in NI. are still very much living in segregation and I think you’ll find still very much entrenched in their views of each other. These areas are working class, with high unemployment and drug use.
I was born in the mid 60s so have lived through the troubles. I am a Protestant Unionist and my friend of 30 years a Catholic. We have attended each other’s churches for funerals of family members. We respect each other’s faith while practicing our own. My friend identifies as Irish and I British.
I attended the 12th of July parade for my part not to rub anyone’s noses or claim triumphalism but to remember my culture and history.
I do not feel able or welcome to attend what should be a shared celebration of our patron St Patrick as it seems to be a day in which the town of Belfast is filled with people draped in Tri colours, their flag not mine, so I choose not to attend. There are some things we can agree to disagree with, no bother.

professionals with graduate degrees

That means a professional working in that field (with a degree) so if you're referring to me (which it appears you are) how could you possibly know?

The republic has a whole lot more going for it than the UK right now. The economy is thriving.

Do the NI unionists not realise that there are lots of Protestants down south who embrace their Irish identity and on no account feel like ‘second class citizens’ ( quite the opposite really).

Most of my social circle are Southern Prods. Mind you they don’t understand the Orange Order any more than I do.

..but like many previous posters, I severely doubt your credentials.

Like I give a fuck .

Some of the posters expressing their opinions itt don't know the difference between your and you're, and write like they're drunk (or drinking anyway).

@Moralitym1n1 - I find it bizarre (and hypocritical) that someone would live in a state, take advantage of its benefits etc. while actively declaring that they wish to see it dissolved.

So you find it bizarre (and hypocritical) that people whose families have lived in an area for hundreds of years, who live in a country they believe has been partitioned by a foreign power, would want to see that country united again?

Should the Palestinians in the occupied territories also get out? Were East Germans wrong to want a united Germany?

your blessed union

If you actually read my posts through this thread, you'd know how silly that statement is.

There's nothing blessed about it, it's just another piece of British colonialism; as I pointed out in my earlier posts.

But I still have to say I find it hypocritical (and unnecessary) to live in a state, participate in it legally, financially, benefits, health care etc if you wish for its dissolution; esp if the state you identify with is so close and you could live there with no barriers.

However I understand what you've said about land/location/history.

You do realise the triumphant crowing like yours about "when the vote comes" and northern Ireland is dissolved is one of the reasons those unionists are so scared and hard-line.

So you find it bizarre (and hypocritical) that people whose families have lived in an area for hundreds of years, who live in a country they believe has been partitioned by a foreign power, would want to see that country united again?

Was it partitioned did to a foreign power or partitioned due to settlers (many settled there for hundreds of years) wanting it to be?

@Moralitym1n1 we would be a nation once again.

*due

Does the rest of the UK really gaf about NI? It is the way it is because of those long settled planters; what would you like them to do?

That means a professional working in that field (with a degree)

It really doesn't - the degree is the qualification. You might choose to drive a bus for an occupation, but you would/should still be able to make a historical analysis based on your academic expertise.

we would be a nation once again.

A historic united Irish nation seems to me to a bit of a fantasy. Is there really an again? England, then Great Britain's been fucking with Ireland since the Normans esp so since the plantation. There's also always been that distinct regional identity in the north east where you can see Scotland on a clear day, it's a lively row away and there were 'irish' kingdoms like dalriada and vice versa.

You do realise the triumphant crowing like yours about "when the vote comes" and northern Ireland is dissolved is one of the reasons those unionists are so scared and hard-line.

Well they'd do better to just deal with the reality of the situation rather than desperately clinging to the past. People have moved on. Deal with it

@anothernamechange123 aww then my dh has to go and I kinda like him

YANBU