To ask if those who want to leave the EU are happy to be personally worse off in order to do so

[Bearbehind]

Following lots of discussion on the subject, it’s clear that leaving the EU is based on something other than financial impact, however, even the government’s impact assessments make it clear that there will be a negative impact.

Would you still chose to leave if you knew it would make you personally financially worse off?

Most economists have no idea how the economy works.

Most academic economists have a much better idea of how the economy works than the vast majority of MN users, most of whom still think it works like a household budget.

family dismiss it all you like but the fact is more could have been done.

Any points based system will be hideously expensive and won’t stop people coming here on holiday and not leaving.

jasjas1973

At least I can argue without getting personal. Something that is beyond you.

NinjaInFluffyPJs

it's difficult thing but that's how it is though. Ime it is more about not wanting that particular jobs.

No its not about wanting that particular job, but that meme ignores the under cutting of wages and the years of illegal work gangs that have removed local workers. (I am talking mainly about agriculture for reference)

At least I can argue without getting personal. Something that is beyond you

Except when you said all remainers who’d argued their points (mainly me probably) were full of ‘bile, bullshit and fuckwittery’ 🤔

Bearbehind

Except when you said all remainers who’d argued their points (mainly me probably) were full of ‘bile, bullshit and fuckwittery’ 🤔

Except that was (as you are well aware) a general statement. Like so many that you have made.
But if you want to twist things, that is up to you.

Ah so being generally insulting is fine, just so long as it’s not individually insulting.

Many remainers have thought so including yourself.

So don't pretend that you have the moral high ground.

No its not about wanting that particular job, but that meme ignores the under cutting of wages and the years of illegal work gangs that have removed local workers. (I am talking mainly about agriculture for reference)

The latter point about for example agriculture is not even an immigration issue itself. There is a MASSIVE problem with trafficking and inhuman conditions. Should be better controlled.

Undercutting wages. In some cases I agree. In others I don't. I don't see anything wrong with NMW being paid for, let's say for example fruit picking. No skills and education needed. Great summer jobs for students as it often includes accomodation.

Let's be honest with ourselves here. I have been told by so many Brits they wouldn't do the low jobs like waitressing, warehouse works etc. It's not even that it's an anecdotal 1 or 2 people. It's loads.
Best was the one who shouted at me in fast food that I am stealing jobs and that's why he has none and when I offered him to put a cv in that we are hiring, he told me to fuck off that he wouldn't do job like this even if he should starve🤷

Last year farmers were looking for summer employees to pick fruit because the usual ones from EU didn't come. Well, lots of fruit ended up rotting there.

It's also the fault of customers that companies look for cheapest. Same people who scream about low wages end up fuming when price of anything goes up to cover that bigger wages. You can't have £1.50 Tesco sandwich made by a person on £12 na hour🤷

Many remainers have thought so including yourself

Yep

With the honourable exception of boney some people on the brexit threads are shit at using some

Ive certainly seen sweeping generalisations from both ends of the debates on here

*The problems you describe with workmen are not a result of EU laws. They stem from the way those laws have been transposed into UK law by the UK authorities. This has always been our choice and our responsibility.

Germany would not be employing non German speakers in these roles*

I wasn’t saying it had anything to do with EU law I was trying to point out that our own laws are not favouring those people born in Britain.

For example we have a shortage of construction type work force but instead of understanding why there is a shortage. It is put down to young people being too lazy or just not wanting to train for these type of jobs

The reality is the people who want to do these jobs who have GCSEs English and Maths are few and far between.

As I have found out you can actually pass all the exams with 100% and do the apprenticeship but without both English and Maths GCSE then you cannot qualify.

My friend was a nurse. We apparently have a shortage of nurses but friend was actually made redundant.

Work that one out.

In fact all the nurses her age she knows have been made redundant. She thinks it is because they got to a level without having a degree and they want all nurses to have a degree.

But those that are coming through that have a degree want a better paying job than nursing.

In all of these instances it is designed to make out that the British are too lazy or stupid to do anything and that is why we need to bring people from outside into the country to rescue us. Yet these people are not subject to the same tests as a British person

As you said Germany would not be employing non German speakers in these roles

Its very interesting that another thread on AIBU, which was started nine hours later in the same day than this one, has almost 5 times more people voting on it that this one.

I guess knob rot is far more important than the effects of leaving the EU.

NinjaInFluffyPJs

I do agree with much of what you say.

With the usual whataboutery, I also know many Brits (your word not mine) that are waiters, waitresses ect.

But I don't for one moment doubt that what you say has happened to you.

The reason I put agriculture is that the illegal work gangs are ages old and what stopped many locals picking fruit because the gangs worked at below NMW, in some cases before it was brought in for everyone.

With regard to this
Last year farmers were looking for summer employees to pick fruit because the usual ones from EU didn't come. Well, lots of fruit ended up rotting there.

In any other situation the employer would raise the wages to attract workers, why didn't the farmers?

I don’t pretend I’m perfect boney it’s just a bit rich of you to pull up a poster for making personal comments, whilst saying you don’t need to, but knowing you make generally insulting comments - stones and glass houses and all that

Its very interesting that another thread on AIBU, which was started nine hours later in the same day than this one, has almost 5 times more people voting on it that this one.

Off to check that one out now

It's also the fault of customers that companies look for cheapest. Same people who scream about low wages end up fuming when price of anything goes up to cover that bigger wages. You can't have £1.50 Tesco sandwich made by a person on £12 na hour

This is an extension of the OP I suppose - people might think they’re happy to be worse off but will they really be.

If that £1.50 sandwich becomes £3 because it’s ‘British’ - are people really going to be happy?

Bearbehind

stones and glass houses and all that

Back atcha

In any other situation the employer would raise the wages to attract workers, why didn't the farmers?

Because farmers are often already on low profits and again. Customers would not be happy if apples rose from for example 1.20 for 6 to 1.80 for 6. 🤷
And I seriously can't see why work like this should be paid more than NMW. It requires nothing except ability to pick a fruit and put it in a box.
There are many jobs which are underpaid like nurses, and wages there should certainly rise, but some jobs require so little that there is no justification in putting same wages as jobs where qualifications are needed and the person has proper responsibilities.

And I seriously can't see why work like this should be paid more than NMW. It requires nothing except ability to pick a fruit and put it in a box.

Except as you say that no-one is picking the fruit, and all that entails.

Supply and demand, isn't that (partially) what this is about?

Except as you say that no-one is picking the fruit, and all that entails.

But no one is picking the fruit as EU residents aren’t coming here (in volume) anymore to do it and British people don’t want to do it.

The point being EU immigrants weren’t ‘stealing’ jobs, they were doing the work British people didn’t / don’t want to do.

Its very interesting that another thread on AIBU, which was started nine hours later in the same day than this one, has almost 5 times more people voting on it that this one.

I can’t find that thread - do you have a link?

Bear

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3633754--in-hoping-he-gets-knob-rot-and-it-falls-off

Although I think I could wish the same fate on a number of MPs

@BoneyBackJefferson

At least I can argue without getting personal. Something that is beyond you

You deliberately misinterpreted what i said... i pulled you up on that and you don't like it....tough.

On your point about why the farmer doesn't pay higher wages; the supermarkets will not pay for any additional supply price increases, so the grower cannot simply pay more, they'll need to renegotiate the contracts for next year.

Of course these people should be paid more, its physically hard & back breaking work, just because you don't need a degree, does not make it somehow lesser work.

Thanks continuity

I had seen that one, I just misread your post and thought it too was about Brexit 😂

The PP was quite right though - it’s a sorry state when knob rot is more important than the biggest thing to affect our generation.

TBF, gazunderers fully deserve a hefty dose of knob rot. My NDNs did it, the whole close knew (and we all liked the vendors) and karma triumphed in the end with them struggling to sell on and taking a big financial hit.