Random child hit my baby

[bluehatbaby]

Name changed. Don't usually post this kind of thing. Really angry. I was waiting in the queue at shopping centre toilets. My 8 month old son was crying and I was (still am) super stressed out as was bursting for a wee and had hysterical child to contend with. Woman stood next to me with child I would say was about 5. She kept saying 'naughty baby naughty baby' - I ignored. Thought she was quite cute. She then turned and smacked my son on the top of his head, hard, at which point he screamed the fucking place down. The woman grabbed her daughter's arm and said nothing to her. I in all fairness went a bit nuts and told her to control her child. She snapped at me 'she's fucking autistic you stupid cow' and dragged her daughter by her hood out of the toilets.

I literally don't know how to feel about it. Pissed off. Ds has now cried himself to sleep and has a red mark on his head.

AIBU to ask mn for some words of wisdom as I'm not very calm and just want to cry.

Sounds as though you were both at the limit of your patience at that particular time and on that particular day, and I bet the other mum also feels crappy about what happened.
You can't say 'that mother shouldn't have taken her autistic child to town' any more than she could say ' you can't leave an 8 mth old to cry endlessly in a queue' !
You both have every right to go wherever you need or want to at any time, but as one stressed out parent to another I'd hope you can understand a little of what the other is going through, or was going through on that particular day.
I'm glad your little one is OK, and I hope the other mum is also feeling better, and another step closer to finding the best way to cope with her autistic child.
Obviously there is a contingent on mumsnet who will cry out at an 8 mth old baby being hit. (obvs) but it was done by a child who has no more control over their behaviour than the baby did. What next, keep anyone with autism, dementia, Altzheimers, alcoholism or even mental health issues away from the public ?

Chalk it up to experience and hope the other mum does the same.

Obviously there is a contingent on mumsnet who will cry out at an 8 mth old baby being hit.

One would hope that most parents would feel the same. Regardless of who did the hitting and why.

@Batshite................erm...............do you know what obvs' means ?' :)

Actually, if an 8 mth old hit another 8 mth old, then I doubt that anyone would be up in arms 'regardless of who did the hitting'.

The thing that's got everyone all riled up is the fact that it was an older (actual age rather than ability to understand age) child who did the hitting.

The fact that the autistic child doesn't have the understanding everyone expects from a child that age and therefore cannot be held accountable for the situation coupled with neither of the mums in question 'being psychic' seems to be a stumbling block for some.

Errmm......... Since no-one is psychic in the scenario, and we cannot blame either of the children for their actions or reactions, again I say no-one was at fault, and both mums were present but couldn't predict the hit would happen!

Please can everyone have a little tolerance and sympathy for everyone involved ! No-one planned this, no-one expected this, and no-one could've stopped this because of that !

Since everyone would seem to physically OK, can everyone not simply sympathise and empathise ? Both mums will have to cope with a whole lot more in life with their respective DC (e.g older kids bullying, school problems, health problems, childcare, blah blah...... all the other issues that crop up on mumsnet) can't they simply be having a stressed out, crappy day and move on with life without dissecting every little detail and apportioning blame to someone? IT WAS NO-ONES FAULT !!!!

Sheesh, the blame culture gone mad !

I wish I could empathise with the other mother but I can't. She failed to prevent her child hitting a baby and then kicked off instead of apologising.

Where was her empathy for the poor baby? I'm glad OP gave her a telling off, maybe she will watch her child on future. I very much doubt this is the first time it's happened. It could have been much more serious.

Simple enough for her to say she was sorry and to explain.

You can't possibly know it isn't the first time. Most children aren't completely predictable little robots who never do anything new.

I wish I could empathise with the other mother but I can't

Think yourself lucky that you can't daisies

I cannot even imagine how stressful it could be to have an autistic child and the poor mum must have been at the end of her wits. However (expecting to get flamed for this), it is a completely different thing to have full understanding for a tantrum, screaming, unusual behaviour and even hitting a bigger child (compared to a baby). The baby was defenceless and ended up with a red mark still there in the evening, so it must have been quite a whack. Should not the mother, given that her daughter obviously was distressed by the baby kept a closer eye on her? OP couldn’t know that the girl couldn’t control herself, but the girls mum could...

The child lashing out could well have been our nephew many years ago. Except we knew he was unpredictable and made sure he was never in a position to hurt another child. Had he done so the first thing we would have done was apologise.

I cannot empathise with someone who didn't think she should have to.

As I said before, she may have not done it before. Some toddlers hit.. Do we keep all toddlers away from other children because at some point having never done it before, they might hit?

Do we keep all toddlers away from other children because at some point having never done it before, they might hit?

Yes, if you can't trust them. Or at least keep them away from babies if a baby crying is distressing them.

It's not hard to keep them out of arm's reach, we managed for years.

I meant all toddlers. No toddlers ever allowed near another child because some toddlers hit.

Had he done so the first thing we would have done was apologise. I cannot empathise with someone who didn't think she should have to.

But as already queried, did the mother get a chance to apologise before the situation escalated? Child hit the baby, mother grabbed her arm (probably to stop any further hitting), OP went a bit nuts, mother retaliated.

I still think people should be taking into account the fact that the child's mother might also be autistic.....

Davidcam, toddlers should be supervised, I kept my NT DC far away from babies unless I was next to them. Babies are in a separate room at nursery for a reason. An autistic child, clearly distressed by a baby “naughty baby, naughty baby, naughty baby”, yes, should be closely supervised I think.....

I completely get that the mum was exhausted, I do feel for her. I wouldn’t have minded being hit myself, or an absolute meltdown. I just feel that it was a big risk to the baby....

Im going to go against opinion and say (not victim blaming) im surprised at op being stood in a toilet queue with a crying 8m old. I think that it is rather off for everyone else stuck in the queue, often they can be pacified with food/drink/toy etc.
Even an NT dc would probably not react well to being trapped in a room/corridor with a screaming baby.

Ive had toddler dc kick off suddenly and that would be awful in an enclosed space.

im surprised at op being stood in a toilet queue with a crying 8m old. I think that it is rather off for everyone else stuck in the queue, often they can be pacified with food/drink/toy etc.

Yeah. "Often".

My NT youngest DD cannot be pacified by anything once she gets going and if I need the loo then I'm going to the loo regardless of whether or not she's crying.

Firstly I'm autistic and the mother of autistic children and I am extremely sensitive to sound (I made them remove the clock from the room where I had my assessment because it was too distracting ticking away).

While all autistic people are different, I can tell you that the baby screaming would have hurt my brain, as in a physical pain, that starts quite low intensity and then would build until I need to let off pressure as time went on. I'm an adult, I've learnt to let this steam off in a way that hurts me not anyone else, and I would probably start hitting my own head. That little one hasn't had chance to learn to direct that release away from the other person, it takes time to learn that and even then I still get looks when I hit my head (or rock or finger flick).

Once I get to the head hitting stage talking to me isn't going to stop the meltdown, and it wouldn't stop my children's either. We need to be removed (or remove ourselves) from the situation, and allowed to calm down somewhere safe. I may try and get an apology out if my child has hurt someone (or if my behaviour has distressed someone), but as a parent my first priority is my children and getting them away from whatever is causing the issues (and if I'm alone it's getting myself out the situation) before the situation gets worse. And someone "losing it" would definitely make the situation worse, and yes I probably would swear at you, with the stress of your baby screaming plus my child getting close to meltdown.

As an autistic person who knows noise is a trigger, I try to avoid situations such as in your op, if possible I use accessible toilets, both on my own and with my autistic child, but then of course we get looks because we don't look disabled.

daisies being the aunty of, is not in the same league as being the parent of, an autistic child. My siblings have no appreciation of how it is to live with it 24/7

daisies being the aunty of, is not in the same league as being the parent of, an autistic child. My siblings have no appreciation of how it is to live with it 24/7

He used to live with us for weeks at a time when it all got too much for my sis. We took him on holiday every year. So, yes, I do have appreciation of how it is.

What a relief you came on the thread to let everyone know that you have zero empathy for a struggling parent and to point out all of the ways in which she was parenting wrong Daisies. It was exactly what this thread needed.

I worry about the kids of parents with no empathy.

I was once expected to stand by and watch as a primary school aged child pinned my much smaller 2 year old to the floor in a soft play centre "because she's autistic".

I walked over and removed her from my toddler, telling her not to do that again.

If looks could kill I'd be dead lol. The mum didn't get it at all. Her thoughts were that everyone should allow her kid to do whatever because she had learning difficulties. The mum didn't even get up to help.

I judged the mum much more than the kid to be honest!

InstantCoffeeSavesTheDay There is no indication from the OP that the girl was clearly distressed repeatedly saying "naughty baby" could simply have been Echolalia.
Yet again.

Echolalia is the unsolicited repitition of vocalisations made by another person.
It is quite common in children with Autism, it does not necessarily indicate distress.

@ DaisiesAreOurSilver

I actually find your remarks insulting concerning how well you can manage your DN when it all gets too much for your sister. :(

You have had a brief taste of what a single autistic child is like , and are sounding very 'superior' about it.

EVERY child is different, and EVERY autistic child is included in that !
Every day children are developing and changing and doing things they've never done before, so how could you possibly know that the mum 'should've known' ? Would you see her constantly telling people to keep their distance in case DC got upset and hit out ? Or if she was a biter (as many children have a tendency to do that at some stage, autistic and NT's) would you insist the mum put a muzzle on the poor child ' as she should know they will bite'???? I'm actually dumbfounded by your lack of understanding :(

You cannot possibly begin to know what that poor mother has and will go through in her daily struggle to raise that child ( playing helper for your sister doesn't count cos chances are the poor mum in question doesn't have a 'helper for when it's all too much !' If you KNOW your sister needs help to cope, how can you not have sympathy/ understanding for this poor mum ?

It's like saying ' I can't empathise/ sympathise with my friend who is unable to stop crying about having cancer cos my Aunt had cancer, but she didn't get all distressed and emotional when I was visiting her, she should know crying might upset me and not do it in front of me.

:( :( :(