To think some people don’t understand what it’s like to have zero family support

[Ironandwhine1]

As the title says , I have seen it here and on numerous occasions experienced it in RL.
I have lots and lots of family, I come from a very large family. I have 3 pretty young dcs. Not once has a single family member offered to have my kids, neither of my parents has ever gone for a walk or to the playground etc with me and the kids. My single sister visits regularly but times it so she comes down an hour before bedtime and leaves when she gets up. She also arranged to go out where we live and never offers for me and my husband to go out. The one time I asked her to babysit (in 7 years), we went out for the day for 4 hours and she made a reference to “milking it”.
Bizarrely they talk a lot about family and the importance of family when in reality I rarely see them and when we do it is strictly a half hour coffee while literally just looking at the kids. BTW it’s not just about babysitting, I guess it’s also about wanting to be with me and the kids for a bit but nothing. It’s always dressed up as not wanting to interfere but when I had an infection recently in my wisdom tooth I would love if someone had interfered as I had to take my youngest and middle into the dentists and it was all just grim tbh... It just seems so different for people we know in RL.
Me and my dh do get babysitters but find that a lot of the time it’s pre Uni kids and obviously when they go to university or get a job they move on. Also generally it’s very difficult to get someone for ad hoc stuff .
I just feel frustrated and sad when I see it suggested here and in RL ; “get the grandparents over, can’t understand people who never take a break from their kids” etc. etc Do people really not understand? At the moment we can’t find a suitable babysitter, it’s 10 pounds an hour where we live ( not Uk ) so you’re talking a very expensive night out or walk etc . Or I had a particularly difficult baby and toddler while never, ever slept and was told to “get granny and family to help out”, they all knew I was massively struggling and did absolutely nothing.
Just a thought for people who think that some parents are trying to martyr themselves

Totally get it.

FIL and MIL over this weekend, they just looked at them all weekend.

Best was FIL saying 'is that safe?' whilst watching my two year old climb up it. Never moved forward, just stood there asking rhetorical questions. You're allowed to move, FIL, you're allowed to move.

Then you get other comments like the oven needs cleaning...

Fwiw we have two kids and both work full time, you're telling me the oven needs cleaning? We run around after you two also, all weekend?

Next time instead of prepping the guest room and ensuite for you, I'll just clean the oven, shall I? Because that's what you notice?

Mind. Boggled. Again.

@TheFairyCaravan Same. Not a shred of help from either set of grandparents. Yet it's often assumed that grandparents, siblings, aunts etc help out with babies and children. It did make me feel quite sad, especially knowing that MIL and FIL paid much more attention to their older grandchildren.

I find with family nowadays there's a lot of admiration but from afar : they want the best bits, parties, sports day, the kids smiling and in a good mood. God forbid they experience actual family life, kids having a tantrum etc. Last time my parents were over I heard my mother saying she couldn't wait to get to Tenerfie on a sun lounger!

I have evidently been really lucky to live in a community and in a culture where the idea that people who are virtual strangers should help each other out is not considered shocking. How could friends not offer and still consider themselves friends?

I feel the same way. All of the "they're your kids, your responsibility" or "it's taking the piss, asking friends for help" are pretty depressing, in my view. As I mentioned upthread, I have three young children, a full time job and no family support (I live overseas and DH's family are not close) and I won't hesitate to offer to help a friend out if they need it. The idea that mothers - always mothers, isn't it, never fathers - need to be on their knees before admitting they could use some help, is I'm sure partly responsible for the increasing levels of PPD and anxiety. What kind of people do we live amongst who think that no-one deserves help because someone somewhere has it worse? These threads are so depressing to me...I encourage my kids to actively look for opportunities to be kind, wherever they can. This is the way I live my life; I'm thankful that I live in a community and among friends who have similar outlooks. I couldn't imagine being surrounded by some of the miserable fuckers on here.

We don't have any family support, as we have no family close by.

My parents have both passed away. PIL and our three (between us) brothers are on the other side of the world.

We're also living several hours from where I grew up, and so even though I have extended family up there who'd be happy to help, they're too far away.

In a way, it's almost easier this way.

We knew what we were getting into, there's no-one to let us down, so we don't feel resentful of our lot. We've had to pay full whack for childcare (we both work), and juggle as best we can.

It doesn't really occur to me to feel bitter and resentful, as the OP (understandably) does, because it is what it is, and I can also see that we have it a lot better than many people, in some ways (of course, I'd love to be close to family and/or have them still alive).

We have lovely friends and community, and people mutually help out as needed.

I understand OP and just recently find myself saying how lucky people who have family support are. I am dreading going back to work after mat leave and juggling both chikdren. Me and DH have not been out together in 3 years. My family are an hour away and locally only MIL who couldnt have both DC. We have a lovely neighbour who I could ask but sadly don't think there is much of a need anymore, marriage gone down the pan.

Aside from the practical / logistical issues, it makes me really sad for the children too.

My mum got divorced when I was a couple of months old and remarried when I was 5. In that time we lived with my DGM and uncle, my DGM took care of us while my mum worked (my mum paid her, and their relationship wasn’t all sunshine and roses by any means). We were so close to DGM and uncle, until they died in the last 10 years.

Then there was my dad, who we stayed with EOW, his brother and sister and their kids. Then later my stepdad, his son, his sister and her children.

There was a lot of family around. Some of them not great (understatement) and I haven’t had any contact with my father or his side of the family for decades - so I know that having more family may be more harmful than not.

I just feel so sad for them that they don’t have any relationships like I had with my lovely nanna and uncle. They have my sister and BIL and then a couple of seemingly random people they see maybe once a year, if that. The fact that MIL is happy to play the doting GM on Facebook but has no interest in being here for them is so sad. I don’t really expect my childfree brother to be bothered about hanging around with my kids, but he drives past us when he finishes work (around 1-2pm) every day and the last time we saw him was before Christmas. I’ve done a lot to help him out, so it’s shit that it’s all so one-sided but there we are.

No nights out or away with DH ever
Surely if you chose to have 4 kids though you wouldn't expect free babysitting for a night out? That's a lot for anyone to cope with, even in an emergency.
I couldn't imagine being surrounded by some of the miserable fuckers on here
It's not miserable to identify that there's a lot of entitlement when people expect family and friends to look after their children for social reasons, not work, or emergencies, which are clearly different. But being criticised because you don't offer regular and free childcare is out of order: grandparents have raised their kids and probably had enough, friends have their own kids. It's a fact that kids are a huge sacrifice and effort and this should be taught at school rather than romanticising it in things like Bounty and mother and baby magazines.

It's really hard BUT you're on your own. Your choice to have children. No one else cares unless they have some vested interest. I think if you have kids the knowledge that no one else cares is a tough lesson. Why should they?

The element of my post about the difference between dogs and human beings still stands, Hithere

Not really?? It’s just as much of a choice to own 10 dogs as it is to have a kid?

Family are related which I’d different. Friends aren’t. Having a kid is a choice it’s not a disability you can’t help.

*is

It's a fact that kids are a huge sacrifice and effort and this should be taught at school rather than romanticising it in things like Bounty and mother and baby magazines

I agree.

No you're not unreasonable but people will jump on you and say that you are.
My DH and I have no one, my DM is 71 but very very young at heart, healthy, fit & agile (think mountain walking, hikes, bird watching etc) and retired but NEVER EVER EVER offers to have her grandchildren even though she knows DH was brought up in care & has no family so we have no one to ask. The only people that help us probably twice or three times a year maximum are DS godparents & occasionally one other friend

.
It's funny because I asked DM about 6 weeks ago could she come to sit for the (2) DC this Friday so we could go out for dinner with another couple as an early birthday evening out for me, literally from 7-11, kids would be in pjs just a case of popping them in to bed & then sit & watch TV till we return, she very reluctantly agreed , I reconfirmed last week before I booked a table, all okay. Get a text this morning - "sorry BearRabbit, forgot I have tickets to see a show this Friday and don't want to miss it" - convenient that. I didn't even reply to the message as I'm too disappointed & angry.

I can't even remember the last time we asked her to have DC, the last time was probably 2 nights overnight at our house when we had absolutely no other choice when DD was born so DS obviously couldn't come to the labour ward with us! Even then our home was left a bomb site , kitchen filthy, toys everywhere, bin overflowing, bed unmade, dishes piled in the sink etc when I'd made a point of cleaning the house & keeping everything tidy before going into hospital so we wouldn't have to do anything upon returning. She didn't even brush DS teeth for the 2 days!!!! I was so upset & angry.

But I always think at least my kids will never have to be without help & in the same position because I'd always offer!!

My DH and I have no one
Can you not see that this by definition is not true?!

I think many people struggle to find support with their children which is really tough.
In our family PIL were local, fit and healthy but didn't want to be involved.
DH sisters never offered support and my dad did his best but was already 74 when dd was born. My mum has helped a lot though, and my friends and my brother also helped us out sometimes.

I think society has become much more individualistic, and more people are working and for longer so have less capacity to help others. Also GP are often older when GC are born (even if they are not still working). And families are more likely to be geographically disbursed.

In the past it was more common for GM to be in their 40's, local to their GC and not working. Life would be a lot nicer if we could all help each other out more. Church communities do help young mothers in my area - MIL enjoyed helping young families every week as a volunteer doing housework and child minding - even though she had no interest in helping with her own GD

@Theyroamoverhere okay if you want to be pedantic about it - we have each other so we can go out separately, 1 set of godparents for DS that have him prob 2 times a year so we can do something for our anniversary/ birthday. And a friend of mine who can very occasionally watch them for an hour or so if I have an appointment that DH can't cover childcare for (ie. if he's at work)
And my mum RARELY and only if I practically beg.

So tell me again how we're inundated with babysitters?

That sounds loads more than a lot of people though. And having a live in adult so you can pop to a shop or do a hobby is in no way alone.
2 times a year for dinners out is not a small amount.
It's like the married women who say they are practically single parents. Its nothing like that.

We don't have any help either. Why DC were young we had paid babysitters if we couldn't take kids and neighbour and I made 10 × 1 hrs tokens each and used them to "pay" each other to do daytime sits for shopping, dentist etc. Felt fair as you knew you'd get a turn in return.

It's like the married women who say they are practically single parents. Its nothing like that I hated that when I was a lone parent. I had someone say she was like a single parent because her husband worked Monday-Friday 9-5! Even if he worked long hours she still had another person to share the joy and frustrations of parenting with, someone to offload emotionally to and someone enabling her to work a few hours 2 times a week. I have great friends now but my old ones slagged me off for never meeting up with them. I worked full time (none of them did) then obviously weekends they were with husbands (totally fair enough) and I wasn't invited to anything they all had husbands at, one of the husbands offered to take my son out with his daughter to give me a break and his wife blocked me!!

2 times a year for dinners out is not a small amount.

Good grief. It's minuscule.

@omafiet thank you- I don't know ANY COUPLE in my social circle that doesn't get to go out to socialise without their children at least once per month, even if it's just a trip to the cinema with their DP. As they have babysitters available as and when needed.

Not once did I ever compare my situation to that of a single parent so I'm a little confused as to why you felt the need to bring that in to the equation

Maybe thats it, youre in groups with people putting marriage above kids, so not being able to do it feels disappointing.
It isnt however a necessity so people not bending over backwards so you can be eined and dined or even stay in a hotel for sex aren't being horrible, they just dont place emphasis on your dates when you are a married couple who chose to have (especially multiple) kids. Time is precious.

don't know ANY COUPLE in my social circle that doesn't get to go out to socialise without their children at least once per month, even if it's just a trip to the cinema with their DP. As they have babysitters available as and when needed
Are you rich? As it isnt standard in my world. That money would go on family time, cinemas are a luxury i wouldnt waste money on if the kids werent coming.