AIBU not to extend a peace offering?

[onko]

My sister died in January; we were best mates and saw each other a lot which resulted in me having great relationships with her 2 children (they are now 19 and 20). I have a 21 month old daughter, a great husband and I work full time. I’ve also been managing all the admin associated with my sister’s death singlehandedly.

So things were as ok as they could have been up until 4 weeks ago when the FDs started chasing payment for the funeral bill. I let the two children and my other sister (who is also an executor) know this via our whatsapp group. My sister jumped in first and said we should pay it and asked if it could come from the estate. I said no as there were insufficient liquid assets. My sister said she would pay the bill and I said ‘cheers for this; I don’t have that kind of cash’. My niece then said ‘OMG thanks that’s so lovely of you xxxx’. Worried that my niece thought my sister had actually paid for the funeral rather than cover it until the estate has been settled, I quickly followed up with ‘I think the estate will be able to pay you back in approx. Sept’.

And that is the last I have heard from my niece. Immediately before this we were (I was) in the process of arranging a birthday night out for my niece and, her 21st birthday present, a memorial event on my sister’s birthday and a big family outing to our home town to scatter her ashes. I was also giving her careers advice. I have sent 7 texts, 2 emails and 2 voicemails and 6 messages on the whatsapp group about legal stuff which have all been ignored.

I have gradually been suspecting the worst and three nights ago my fears were confirmed. I spoke to my nephew to ask if he knew if there was a problem with my niece’s phone or if there was any other reason she wasn’t getting back to me and he confirmed that she wasn’t very happy that I had decided that ‘they’ (the children) would pay for the funeral and that I should be contributing to the costs. I asked why she hasn’t talked to me about this and he said she doesn’t really trust me any more.

I was livid and let rip on the phone, telling him she was 100% in the wrong and she should consult any adult she chooses to find out how things work when someone dies. I moaned about having given loads of my time to sorting out her affairs and that she may have gotten away with appalling behaviour with her Mum but I will not tolerate being blanked. I said I was disgusted with her expectation that she thinks she can inherit a massive sum from someone dying and yet others will cover the costs and, quite frankly, if she doesn’t think I am trustworthy then I don’t want to know her. My nephew was silent in all of this and I eventually pulled myself together, apologised for the rant and said I’d better go then hung up.

He was very upset by my reaction and called my other sister for help. He had obviously told my niece what I had said and she is now upset with him because he has made the situation massively worse. Apparently she sent him a bitter, passive aggressive text to say she now felt the lowest she had felt all year and has stopped returning his calls/messages. He is quite concerned about her (she has been depressed in the past and self-harmed in her teens). My sister has sent her a text and a vm which has been unanswered.

My sister has said she thinks I now need to extend an olive branch to my niece and she thinks I have overreacted a little bit to being blanked. I’m sorry but FUCK THAT. My niece is by no means all bad but had been a MASSIVE BITCH to her mum especially for the last 12 months and even during her last, dying days (she only pulled herself together 2 weeks from my sister’s death). My sister was always, IMO, ridiculously lenient with my niece’s behaviour (which got worse as she got older – really nasty and manipulative at times) and always apologised for her part in their arguments in order to set a good example and not completely fall out with her, despite my niece being about 95% in the wrong at all times. As a result she is used to getting away with bad behaviour and is now playing the injured party.

I don’t really have a plan about how this will go but I am adamant that I am NOT going to give a peace offering. I will almost certainly forgive my niece and let this blow over if she apologises unreservedly but right now she can stew in her juices. AIBU?

@nocause that is being harsh in the extreme surely

You know you don’t have to be executor. You can decide to either hand all admin to your other sister and formally resign as executor. Or, you both can. Then the estate could be dealt with by a solicitor - and incur fees.

What would this solve? It would solve the niece having any feelings that she doesn’t trust you as regards the estate.

I’d makes enquiries to find out how much this would cost, then call a family meeting to discuss the estate, where it is now, expenses now and anticipated settlement amount

THEN advise, if niece doesn’t trust you, the estate can be turned over to a solicitor to administer and will incur fees of approximately xx amount which will come from the estate

Regardless of which way it goes, the funeral expenses (give amount) comes from the estate.

I’m just thinking about years down the road, Will niece always be thinking she can’t trust you, you didn’t do the right thing with the estate etc. Might be best to step away from that role. Then you’re relationship cannot be hindered by niece’s idea of lack of trust. She’ll hear same thing from a solicitor. Anything she doesn’t like to hear, well, it’s the solicitor she’ll have an issue with, not you. Give her (and nephew) that choice.

To be honest she has been massively lucky to have you and your sisters to sort all of the funeral paperwork. I lost my mum at 25 - so 4 years older than her - and had to do it all alone (only child and mum had no living siblings).

I don't think it is your job to explain to her how probate law works. If she wanted to know she could google it, so she clearly doesn't. Yes she will be emotionally raw, but so are you. Sadly these times in life are learning curves; she needs to get onto that as people in her life won't support her rude attitude like her mum did. I think considering the amount of times you have called and tried to contact her since she is being unreasonable and you can go forward knowing that you are in fact looking after her a) by sorting the estate b) having given her the chance to move on and respond to messages c) teaching her now that this behaviour is not going to wash with people in the real world.
On top of all of that you are dealing with your own grief which she also should respect. Losing your mum in your 20's is hard and she may be dealing with grief connected to her own behaviour towards her mum in her last weeks. She needs some therapy to be honest, but you don't have to hold her hand to get her there.

Sorry for the auto text changes.

I am so sorry about your sister op. Condolences.
There’s lots of great and differing perspectives above.

I’ve recently lost my own mother and am the executor. I instructed a solicitor but loads of decisions/info are still mine to make/liaise with siblings about etc.

One of my siblings has made the whole thing so much more stressful - angry, unpredictable, competitive, unreliable, just not helping. I am doing my best to plough on and assume it’s her own grief accentuating worst aspects of her character. I am sure it’s done the same to me as well and I know I haven’t always managed to be at my best with her and have apologised to her (even though I am fundamentally angry with her).

If it were me I would extend an olive branch. In a straightforward way being aware of history of crap behaviour and being wary of getting further embroiled.

It will have absolutely torn her apart to have lost her mum - no doubt some guilt for being crap all mixed in with real loss. I’ve found what’s most difficult to deal with is that at exactly the time you too have suffered loss and are grieving others are misbehaving.
I am really sorry but sounds as though some olive branch would help future civil family relationships and without that there may be long lasting family divisions.

You have done nothing wrong at all from your posts, Oliver branches don’t need to be any admission you have. If she interprets it that way let her - she’s in a world of pain.
I am really sorry you have this on top of the loss of your sister.

The FD should have gone to them as beneficiaries, not you

The FD will go to whoever arranged the funeral and signed the agreement with them to pay. Nor will they necessarily agree to wait for Probate these days. When my father died last year the FD’s terms for payment were 30 days.

I am so sorry for everything OP

I said to my bereaved it always BUT always kicks off after a death when everyone is grieving

And here is a classic example
And you are stressed and grieving too which colours your reactions

Calm down a bit before you make any decisions and further communication with anyone is my advice

This has been hard on everyone , including you

You are understandably angry but much of this is grief anger

Who is the executor? The executor settles any outstanding debts, which will include the funeral costs.

Not out of their own pocket they don’t.

When did we start expecting 21 year olds not to have any responsibility? They can have sex, get married, have children, drive vehicles, drink alcohol, live alone and travel. When did it become 'oh she's only 21, she's just a baby!'. We are infantilising grown adults and not expecting them to act like the adults that they are.

And I say this as someone who lost their mother at 16, so please don't bother with responding that I couldn't possibly understand.

I don’t think it’s harsh at all, and frankly I am that people are calling the OP on having drank too much wine years ago and yet the niece told her mother that she was just waiting for her to “pull the cancer card” just days before she died and this needs to be excused?

She’s an adult, and not a very nice one by the sounds of it. If this behaviour now was out of character you could put it down to grief but it clearly isn’t.

Sometimes bad things happen to bad people....

I lost my dad age 20, I had to do all this independently as my mum was sectioned under the MH act .

Bereavement or not, the nieces entitlement behaviour is horrid, she cannot go around attacking and abusing people, and justifying her behaviour and actions under the disguise of her bereavement.

If the neice doesn’t understand estate process then she needs to educate herself, rather than attacking all around her.

I did and we had family business and a properties to sell, I also had to get living power of attorney (as it was called back then) as my mum was in to fit state to be making informed decisions.

Stop making excuses for the neice, and vilifying the OP.

When was the meal for her 21 supposed to be?

What you’re going through at the moment is a thankless task. Maybe when they meet with the solicitors ask them to give the option saying something along the lines of ‘if you really don’t trust your aunt we are happy to take over the job, our fees are ...’ and see what happens.

I think you need to step away for a few days spend some time with your Family, then accept that you are likely never to receive an apology from your dn or if you do, not for several years. Then try and carry on with what needs to be done but simply ignoring the behaviour of the petulance but with regards to trying to solve it, do nothing, carry on as normal. Include her in all chats and don’t get upset when she ignores. She will come around eventually.

If it’s not too late to organise a meal for her 21 is it still worth it, it’s a way to break the current situation, less of an olive branch more doing something you were planning anyway, it’s much harder being a bitch to someone when they’re right in front of you than over messenger or bitching to anyone who’ll listen behind their back.

Id walk away from being executor. You should complete a form and send it to probate office. For me it would be being accused of being dishonest ( with clearly well thought out examples in her mind ) that would make me just walk away from the admin etc. Youve done a lot. Let the solicitor do the rest

I'm sorry for your loss OP.
You have been through so much and for an extended period too. It is important to prioritise your own health and well being and for this reason I would take a step back and hand over the executor role to the solicitor. Have you taken much time off work after your sister's death? Your own grief needs space.

Your niece does have other people in her life to support her, I would concentrate on yourself and your own family for a while and definitely consider accessing grief counselling.

It's really really common to have big fall outs after the death of a family member.
I would maybe send a card to DN saying I love you very much but I am finding things difficult at the moment so am taking a step back for a while.

I agree about handing over executor duties to solicitors who will be paid for it out of the estate. They'll pay your sister back the funeral costs then too.

I'm so sorry for your terrible loss OP. Death truly brings out the absolute worst in people. Your niece is obviously having a horrible but that does not make it okay to take it out on you.

I would let the whole thing lie for now. Send a heartfelt happy birthday to your niece on the day but withdraw apart from that. Let the dust settle and then see what you're all feeling when the grief has begun to mend a little.

I agree with nocause. She was a brat before her mother's death. It's not a free pass on past and present behaviour. I'd remove myself as executor.

Oof you’ve made a couple of really mean comments about your niece @onko

I’m sure they’re based in your grief and anger but they do make me think that perhaps now isn’t the time to be talking in case you say them to her. Accusing someone of not caring about her dying mother isn’t something you can come back from, really!

And I think you should hand over some of this responsibility. It’s affecting you too negatively. Causing too much damage. I can’t imagine your sister would have wanted that!

Update

I went to see occ health first thing this morning; had a 10 min triage then was advised to go and see the chaplain and he was good – really good actually. Spoke a lot about forgiveness – the difference between forgiving people and not actions. He said that because I am prepared to forgive my niece I have already forgiven her but I am just not ready to show it to her just yet. He said the time will come when I am ready to show it but in the meantime I should not worry about how and when that will happen and who initiates it. Stuff I have been bothered about like her birthday/other events/legal matters are not important right now. Some good advice there and I am clearer about the way I am going to go (which is to leave things rather than extend an olive branch now) and a bit happier as a result of making a decision.

He said – like a lot of you - that family fallouts are really extremely common esp about 6 months after a death as we have a natural, inbuilt compulsion to care for those close to us after death and that this starts to wear off after a while (not sure I completely buy this but it sounds good). I also asked him what to do if my niece doesn’t forgive me and he told me to remember that God forgives me….hmm

I will definitely take all the advice about stepping back from legal matters. Lots of things are in train so I don’t know if I can resign as an executor but I will certainly let the solicitors take over from now. My other sister needs to step up too.

Oh and my nephew just texted me to ask how I was and if I had slept. He’s an absolute diamond and, contrary to what the odd person here has decided is happening, we really haven’t been anywhere near close to falling out. I am aware that part of the problem with my niece has been her feeling like she has been unfavourably compared to golden-boy all her life. I agree with whoever said she needs some intensive psychotherapy. But I really don’t know if I have the time and energy and goodwill to be a surrogate mum if that is what she needs. My daughter needs me more. NB she does have a Dad who lives v close to her but I’ll leave it at that for now, that’s a whole different thread (and a timebomb waiting to happen about the family home).

Thank you for taking to time to read the thread and my long posts and to respond; I appreciate all differing viewpoints (except for a couple of nasties that came crawling like spiders out the skirting board in the early hours).

That's a really great and positive update, OP.

I wish you the best and I hope in time things improve in your family.

You've all been through such a hard time of things.

That's great to read OP.

You largely got good advice there.

I really feel for you. Being an Executor is a huge job often, and until you've done it, you have no idea.

I also appreciate with a full time job and a baby that this has taken you from your mothering duties, which must be very difficult for you and guilt inducing, which you don't need.

We don't get the time back and it goes quickly.
I'd imagine it has been a trying time for your husband too with you trying to do the right thing.

I would definitely let your other sister's step up.
You need to put your own family first too.

Whilst your niece is grieving, you are not her punching bag.

I would not dream of taking on a Mothering role. Your sister had a very tough time in that position.

You can be their for your sister's daughter, but only if they respect you and your boundaries.

Your niece needs to grow up.

I'm sure she'll be fine. She certainly is cute enough regarding the money that is coming to her🙄.

I think getting a quote from the solicitor regarding costs would be a very good idea.

Best of luck.

Reading that has lifted my heart. You sound so much calmer and less stressed. I’m glad things are looking better today. And hurrah for the chaplain.

She sounds like a bit of a cow regardless of the grief.

Just focus on the business side and let her fester. If she wants to be alone with nobody then that's her choice.

You're update just loaded. Glad to hear OP. Hope you're feeling better.

What a horrible situation. I'm glad you feel a bit less stressed about the whole thing today.

I'd definitely resign as executrix as well. It's causing way too much additional work and stress to you and your family, and may also push your relationship with your niece past the point of no return, it looks like.

Ask your sister if she's willing to be the sole executrix and if she isn't, then pass either your 'half' or the whole role on to the solicitors. Your niece sounds unlikely to back down from accusing you of financial impropriety and you need to step away to protect yourself.

A handover meeting will sort the logistics of whatever tasks are underway, so don't worry about that.