AIBU not to extend a peace offering?

[onko]

My sister died in January; we were best mates and saw each other a lot which resulted in me having great relationships with her 2 children (they are now 19 and 20). I have a 21 month old daughter, a great husband and I work full time. I’ve also been managing all the admin associated with my sister’s death singlehandedly.

So things were as ok as they could have been up until 4 weeks ago when the FDs started chasing payment for the funeral bill. I let the two children and my other sister (who is also an executor) know this via our whatsapp group. My sister jumped in first and said we should pay it and asked if it could come from the estate. I said no as there were insufficient liquid assets. My sister said she would pay the bill and I said ‘cheers for this; I don’t have that kind of cash’. My niece then said ‘OMG thanks that’s so lovely of you xxxx’. Worried that my niece thought my sister had actually paid for the funeral rather than cover it until the estate has been settled, I quickly followed up with ‘I think the estate will be able to pay you back in approx. Sept’.

And that is the last I have heard from my niece. Immediately before this we were (I was) in the process of arranging a birthday night out for my niece and, her 21st birthday present, a memorial event on my sister’s birthday and a big family outing to our home town to scatter her ashes. I was also giving her careers advice. I have sent 7 texts, 2 emails and 2 voicemails and 6 messages on the whatsapp group about legal stuff which have all been ignored.

I have gradually been suspecting the worst and three nights ago my fears were confirmed. I spoke to my nephew to ask if he knew if there was a problem with my niece’s phone or if there was any other reason she wasn’t getting back to me and he confirmed that she wasn’t very happy that I had decided that ‘they’ (the children) would pay for the funeral and that I should be contributing to the costs. I asked why she hasn’t talked to me about this and he said she doesn’t really trust me any more.

I was livid and let rip on the phone, telling him she was 100% in the wrong and she should consult any adult she chooses to find out how things work when someone dies. I moaned about having given loads of my time to sorting out her affairs and that she may have gotten away with appalling behaviour with her Mum but I will not tolerate being blanked. I said I was disgusted with her expectation that she thinks she can inherit a massive sum from someone dying and yet others will cover the costs and, quite frankly, if she doesn’t think I am trustworthy then I don’t want to know her. My nephew was silent in all of this and I eventually pulled myself together, apologised for the rant and said I’d better go then hung up.

He was very upset by my reaction and called my other sister for help. He had obviously told my niece what I had said and she is now upset with him because he has made the situation massively worse. Apparently she sent him a bitter, passive aggressive text to say she now felt the lowest she had felt all year and has stopped returning his calls/messages. He is quite concerned about her (she has been depressed in the past and self-harmed in her teens). My sister has sent her a text and a vm which has been unanswered.

My sister has said she thinks I now need to extend an olive branch to my niece and she thinks I have overreacted a little bit to being blanked. I’m sorry but FUCK THAT. My niece is by no means all bad but had been a MASSIVE BITCH to her mum especially for the last 12 months and even during her last, dying days (she only pulled herself together 2 weeks from my sister’s death). My sister was always, IMO, ridiculously lenient with my niece’s behaviour (which got worse as she got older – really nasty and manipulative at times) and always apologised for her part in their arguments in order to set a good example and not completely fall out with her, despite my niece being about 95% in the wrong at all times. As a result she is used to getting away with bad behaviour and is now playing the injured party.

I don’t really have a plan about how this will go but I am adamant that I am NOT going to give a peace offering. I will almost certainly forgive my niece and let this blow over if she apologises unreservedly but right now she can stew in her juices. AIBU?

My opinion is valid - executor may deal with admin of paying any outstanding bills ie funeral etc, but it is the estate of the deceased that bears the cost- as pp said these costs will reduce the value of the estate for inheritance tax purposes.

She is still young. At twenty, she won't be emotionally mature, and has had a bereavement.

Writing a letter addressing her concerns (that the funeral is paid of the estate) in a kind way would be the best way forward. You can invite her to call you to discuss further.

Honestly, she is barely out of her teens, being a pain in the bum is par for the course often at this age.

Whilst I do think you were right correct in feeling aggrieved, I am not sure about the way you handled it ( not saying you were incorrect- just unsure). Maybe emotions are high due to your sisters death and thoughts have got muddled and tensions stretched.
I do think though that you may want to extend the olive branch. This has already split the family and even though you may feel you were correct, the harm it has already done must be shattering for all concerned.

Gosh what a tricky/stressful situation. How sad for you all.

Niece does sound rude/cheeky but perhaps doesn’t understand how it all works. Don’t blame you at all for reacting the way you did though. Being an executor looks to be a nightmare for which there’s little appreciation.

I’d say leave it for now and perhaps your other sister can deal with niece/nephew for a while?

Thats so difficult, and it is the grief speaking as well as the underlying feeling of entitlement that was evident before your sister died.

I think maybe a phone call to your nephew apologising for losing it not the phone would be appropriate but an air clearing email to the group might be a good idea. Along the lines of dear all, there seems to be some misunderstanding in the way inheritance and associated costs work. It is very kind of Dsis to offer to cover the FD bill until probate is obtained it is usual for all costs to be covered eventually by the estate. Similarly we would not expect extended family to contribute towards our own funeral costs when the time comes. Hoping everyone is well and looking forward to catching up when you've got your head out of your arse (you may wish to paraphrase the last bit)

sorry you are having to deal with all this as well as your own grief.

Are you the executor? The fd should wait for probate to be settled and not chase. I'd let it lie tbh. You're all grieving.

What a horrible situation. Your niece has behaved badly but it does t sound like you have helped the situation either. Ranting and offloading all that nastyness and drama onto a grieving 19 year old was really unkind of you. I don’t know why you would have done that. It’s telling that you are blaming him for making the situation worse rather than you. What did you expect him to do when you ‘let rip’ at him? Poor lad.

Is there anyone else in the family who could help try and smooth things over. Obviously there was nothing wrong with expecting the estate to pay for the funeral but I think you are being very unreasonable to insist that the niece apologises to you otherwise you won’t permit this awful situation to blow over.

I’m really, really sorry about your sister. What do you think she would want you to do?

Mintjulia Wed 03-Jul-19 14:38:05
Perhaps it would be worth the executors -as a group - sending an email to all members of the family saying that there seems to have been a misunderstanding and that law of probate works by settling things in order ie outstanding debts, tax bills and funeral costs, after which any remaining funds are divided as per the will.

This sounds like a very good idea.

I'd apologise to the nephew but leave the niece to it. She can choose whether to apologise/extend an olive branch after reading an email as detailed above.

I can understand that you are all grieving and that can cloud your judgement. However, since your niece seems quite unaware of how things proceed after a loved one departs, I'd write a email to both niece and nephew explaining all the technicalities.

And, frankly, if I was dealing with a 20 year old with a past of poor mental health and self harm I wouldn't call her a bitch, brat or say that she could get away with her mum but not with you (that was mean as her mum is gone). She could just spiral back into depression. She's not being mature here but neither you are.

Thanks for the time you have taken to read my long post and respond and for the kind messages. It has really upset me reading these - yes I am still grieving and emotions are still high. If I am honest I am mostly insulted about being thought of as untrustworthy in terms of money. That REALLY hurts.

Lots of food for thought here. I will repair things with my nephew tonight then think what to do next.

Good. I'm sure everything will be fine OP

@onko, she said that in the heat of the moment and because she doesn’t understand how these things work. This hasn’t been the finest hour for your niece or you, both of you are hurting and emotions are highly charged. If you think about what your sister would want, you won’t go far wrong.

Hope it all goes well x

It's awful to lose a sibling and awful to lose a parent. And bearing in mind that the bit of your brain that manages emotion doesn't really kick in to your mid twenties....
Be careful that in your grief you dont go into a world of how she 'should' behave. Managing teenagers and young adults is a whole different ball game (imagine a toddler that argues back with their version of logic).

Personally I really would be the bigger person. She needs you.

The solicitor hands out the money so unless you have power of attorney or other access to your sisters cash it is impossible for you to be dishonest with the money??
Write a calm letter pointing out what you have done and be super clear about money and who is paying/ loaning what. suggest a sit down face to face. You should not have ranted at the nephew as he was just the messenger he deserves an apology, can’t you resign as executor so they have to do all the work and appreciate what you have done?

Yes, there was absolutely no reason for her to impugn your trustworthiness, and also, given the time, energy, and effort you will be expending on winding up your sister's affairs, to the benefit of the estates beneficiaries, that would most definitely smart.

Maybe just let the dust settle, and things cool down? But definitely repair things with your poor nephew, he's very much piggy in the middle, and doesn't deserve to cop it in the neck!

She's very young to have lost her mum. I think I'd cut her some slack personally

I'd extend the olive branch, you've all lost someone you obviously loved and it would be a shame if you all ended up estranged too.

Grieving can make people behave badly.

I think it probably would be helpful for you to explain your role as executor to everyone on the group chat. Also explain that all decisions are made jointly with your DSis as the other executor.

Your DN is hurting a lot. Every little set back or disappointment will feel huge to her right now.

I would look for a way to reach out to her without either apologising or asking for an apology from her. Then try to move on, cutting her some slack while not enabling the behaviour you saw her display towards her mum.

I agree that a call to your nephew is also in order. He is hurting too. Acknowledge that and apologise for ranting at him. Being in the middle of this situation must be making things harder for him.

Your niece and nephew both need you to help them right now. You need to give them support, while seeking support yourself from other people who are less affected by your sister's death. That means you may need to put your own grief to one side temporarily to help your niece and nephew cope, even if your feelings are hurt by some of their words or actions. You can then lean on your wider family/friends later on.

I would phone your nephew first to apologise profusely for losing it with him. It’s not his fault, he did not deserve the rant.

I probably would be the bigger person and try offering one last olive branch to the niece. If she doesn’t want to take it then so be it but at least try. She’s very young to lose a parent.

She's lost her mum, she's still young. Maybe she has been a brat but you don't come out of this well at all. Your behaviour was much worse.

Sending a message about how things are done is a good idea.

Is there a lot of inheritance? Money can make people act strangely.

I think losing your cool and letting rip at a young adult who's just lost their parent and is struggling is unreasonable.
Yes you don't have to pay and shouldn't do so but you can have these conversations nicely and with understanding.
Youngadults aren't mature or rational, for your niece to feel that you let her down by adding money stress is understandable. Its her feelings. For her to retreat from you while dealing with it is also understandable. It's not mature and she's not right, but it's understandable.
To let rip at your nephew isn't ok.
And you absolutely should apologise. He didn't do anything, your niece wasn't great but it's understandable. Part of this is you and your grief over your sister. I'm sorry for the hard time everyone is going through

Update

So I have spoken to my nephew now and we have cleared the air (apologies were coming from all angles). However things with my niece are actually worse than I originally thought; he spoke to her this morning and she is firmly entrenched in her view that I should contribute to the funeral costs and that I am generally am up to no good with their money. She has said a LOT of bad things about me to support her argument - including a well-meaning little discussion we had about 2 months ago about her keeping her inheritance/new wealth to herself rather than tell all her friends (which is me manipulating her apparently), my ‘trying to convince her we were hard-up’ (which is a lie – she ‘knows’ that we are rich) and a comment my sister had made about 10 years ago that whenever I visited I would bring a bottle of wine but would end up drinking about 3 (guilty as charged!).

My nephew has told her that he thinks I'm right about the estate meeting funeral costs and she is now furious with him that he has taken my side and she feels betrayed (he admitted to me that he had sort of agreed with her point of view previously although this was because he didn't understand how things worked). I have asked him to persuade her to talk to my sister but he has already said that to her and she has refused as 'my sister will be on my side''. I think I will ask the solicitor to invite them both to a meeting and make sure that at least my nephew attends (my sister lives a long way away and is off on holiday as soon as term ends).

This behaviour is startlingly reminiscent of how my sister described their arguments (or more usually if she had had an argument with her Dad, my sister's ex); she will refuse to budge, try to get others on side and resort to emotional blackmail and character assassinations to justify her viewpoint.
I asked my nephew's advice on what to do and he said to let things cool and he will try and get her to the meeting with the solicitor. But I’m REALLY fucking livid….he said far too much about what she said before I stopped him (it was like listening at the door when people are talking about you). I can’t do an olive branch, I really can’t. However I will send off her birthday card tomorrow with a note in it saying I’ll sort the present when she lets me know which one she wants me to get her (obv we are not having a night out any more - she will actually be on her own as she's not talking to her Dad either).

NB I am desperate for this to not become about money. But for information their total individual assets once the estate is settled will be about £50,000 more than my total assets if my husband and I were to split our net worth and I live in a 2-bed flat with a mortgage and pay nearly £1500 a month in nursery fees. I also, from habit, pay for everything when we go out, whether it is lunch or a big night out in London. Maybe I am kidding myself and this is all about money. Ugh.

Has your sister made clear to niece and nephew that she is only covering the bill until the estate is settled?

Have you asked the FD is they will wait for estate to be settled before being paid?