AIBU not to extend a peace offering?

[onko]

My sister died in January; we were best mates and saw each other a lot which resulted in me having great relationships with her 2 children (they are now 19 and 20). I have a 21 month old daughter, a great husband and I work full time. I’ve also been managing all the admin associated with my sister’s death singlehandedly.

So things were as ok as they could have been up until 4 weeks ago when the FDs started chasing payment for the funeral bill. I let the two children and my other sister (who is also an executor) know this via our whatsapp group. My sister jumped in first and said we should pay it and asked if it could come from the estate. I said no as there were insufficient liquid assets. My sister said she would pay the bill and I said ‘cheers for this; I don’t have that kind of cash’. My niece then said ‘OMG thanks that’s so lovely of you xxxx’. Worried that my niece thought my sister had actually paid for the funeral rather than cover it until the estate has been settled, I quickly followed up with ‘I think the estate will be able to pay you back in approx. Sept’.

And that is the last I have heard from my niece. Immediately before this we were (I was) in the process of arranging a birthday night out for my niece and, her 21st birthday present, a memorial event on my sister’s birthday and a big family outing to our home town to scatter her ashes. I was also giving her careers advice. I have sent 7 texts, 2 emails and 2 voicemails and 6 messages on the whatsapp group about legal stuff which have all been ignored.

I have gradually been suspecting the worst and three nights ago my fears were confirmed. I spoke to my nephew to ask if he knew if there was a problem with my niece’s phone or if there was any other reason she wasn’t getting back to me and he confirmed that she wasn’t very happy that I had decided that ‘they’ (the children) would pay for the funeral and that I should be contributing to the costs. I asked why she hasn’t talked to me about this and he said she doesn’t really trust me any more.

I was livid and let rip on the phone, telling him she was 100% in the wrong and she should consult any adult she chooses to find out how things work when someone dies. I moaned about having given loads of my time to sorting out her affairs and that she may have gotten away with appalling behaviour with her Mum but I will not tolerate being blanked. I said I was disgusted with her expectation that she thinks she can inherit a massive sum from someone dying and yet others will cover the costs and, quite frankly, if she doesn’t think I am trustworthy then I don’t want to know her. My nephew was silent in all of this and I eventually pulled myself together, apologised for the rant and said I’d better go then hung up.

He was very upset by my reaction and called my other sister for help. He had obviously told my niece what I had said and she is now upset with him because he has made the situation massively worse. Apparently she sent him a bitter, passive aggressive text to say she now felt the lowest she had felt all year and has stopped returning his calls/messages. He is quite concerned about her (she has been depressed in the past and self-harmed in her teens). My sister has sent her a text and a vm which has been unanswered.

My sister has said she thinks I now need to extend an olive branch to my niece and she thinks I have overreacted a little bit to being blanked. I’m sorry but FUCK THAT. My niece is by no means all bad but had been a MASSIVE BITCH to her mum especially for the last 12 months and even during her last, dying days (she only pulled herself together 2 weeks from my sister’s death). My sister was always, IMO, ridiculously lenient with my niece’s behaviour (which got worse as she got older – really nasty and manipulative at times) and always apologised for her part in their arguments in order to set a good example and not completely fall out with her, despite my niece being about 95% in the wrong at all times. As a result she is used to getting away with bad behaviour and is now playing the injured party.

I don’t really have a plan about how this will go but I am adamant that I am NOT going to give a peace offering. I will almost certainly forgive my niece and let this blow over if she apologises unreservedly but right now she can stew in her juices. AIBU?

Sag: the bill's been paid now. I will speak to my sister tonight; I have been feeling that she has needed to back me up a little bit and she wasn't really interested in getting involved when I told her I suspected I was being blanked which is one of the reasons why I was quite indignant by her telling me I had to take the moral high ground and extend a peace offering. Its the sort of thing that is really, really easy to say to someone.....

In my experience funeral costs have to be met immediately, funeral directors would be waiting months for probate to be granted otherwise. Usually the deceased’s bank will pay before probate if there’s enough money to do it. I’m assuming your sister’s paid the account and will want reimbursement, OP?

Hopefully the solicitor will convince your niece that the money must come from the estate, not that she’ll have any choice at the end of the day.

She sounds like a very unhappy young woman who’s directing all her pain at you. Sadly I think all her money will be gone very quickly. At least you warned her. I really feel for you, it’s an awful situation for all of you. Maybe some time to let the dust settle will help. 💐

Well, I think a fair question would be, would she think she should be meeting her brother's funeral expenses if (saints forfend) he were to die? Or should his estate?

Completely understand your position OP. Grief is not a carte blance to behave this entitled and badly. Plus, she has form for similar behaviour prior to her loss, so this isn't out of character. I would keep my distance. Not inflame the situation further but certainly no need for you to apologise or bend over backwards.

I think your nephew is correct just don’t say any more and let the dust settle. Meeting with the solicitor is a good idea maybe if it comes from him she will realise that’s how it works.
Sorry about your sister

Not rtft yet, but bitter experience it isn't uncommon for families (once close) to have massive breakdowns following bereavement.

Niece is most probably at fault here; particularly if you take your version at face value. But she is only 21, and as much as we/they like to believe they are mature and adult at that age they are just not. Science proves this too.

Couple that with the massive loss of her mum and I can see why she isn't behaving nicely.

I think your choices here are; is this enough that you cannot forgive niece and cut all contact potentially indefinitely.

Or can you swallow down your pride and accept she is making huge mistakes she will one day (and probably not for some years) regret.

It's hard but I think your choices are limited and you may have to suck up being the adult here for a while longer.

I think in the long run the loss of your niece will eat away at you more than the injustice of her being naive and immature now.

Sorry for your loss;

She's grieving. Which makes people do funny things. I think you need to forgive, forgive and forgive again.

She's not in the right, but think you should overlook that for now.

It's difficult, and I know that you are grieving too, but do what you can to stay on good terms, and hope that she's grateful in the future.

Sorry for your loss.

*babysharkah

Are you the executor? The fd should wait for probate to be settled and not chase. I'd let it lie tbh. You're all grieving.*

I’m afraid I disagree. Probate can take months. Funeral Directors need the actual money to pay for third party costs (crematorium, minister, order of service, doctors’ fees, etc.) plus their own staff costs plus running of branch.
No business wants a bad debt unfortunately.

At her age I would have had no clue how this all worked. And while my relationship with my parents wasn't great back then, I'd have been utterly lost. You are grieving, I get that, but also sounding like you are taking this very personally. She is barely out of her teens and is lashing out.

Some people do have shitty relationships with their parents at her age, doesn't make her a shitty person. Cut her some slack.

Sadly people often lash out at others when they are grieving, both when loved ones are seriously ill and if they die. Unfortunately, without some love, wisdom and understanding on all sides, positions can be taken and fall outs that were never meant to happen can last years. It's as others have said, she's grieving a terrible loss, maybe made worse if she is also feeling guilty about how her relationship was with her mother. Age 20 isn't always a good age for mother/daughter relationships. You are also grieving, the loss of a sibling is a great loss, though not as great as the loss of a mother. Keep doing your best op ...non one can do more. Try to make allowances for her age and her terrible loss. So sorry for your own loss.

If your niece was unkind to her mum, and is nasty to her dad and brother, then its not youth or grief, she is just an entitled brat

I agree with @isadoradancing123 - your niece was horrible to her mum and now she's being horrible to you. Everyone knows that debts are paid before anyone receives any money, and the cost of a funeral is classed as a debt. Why should you pay? You were lovely to your sister (except for drinking all her wine!) and your niece wasn't - don't apologise.

You did everything right
But she's lost her mum
Probably not thinking straight.
Grief is so awful that people distract themselves with ridiculous arguments.
Why dont you give her a hug?

Give her a hug? The niece won't even speak to her! I think we are way past hugging and making nice. The niece may be grieving but she sounds like she's also very manipulative. It's not an either/ or thing.

I'm not on the side of your niece. I get that she's angry and lashing out at everybody. But you're having a hard time too and you shouldn't have to put up with this. It's all very well saying that you've got to be the bigger person I just don't think that's the case here she is very much in the wrong. I would be a bigger person in this situation by not expecting her to apologise. Equally I would not be apologising to her.

I think you're very kind and generous to still be thinking about buying her a birthday present when she has been so awful to you. I wouldn't!

And yes it does seem to be more about money. Are you letting it get to you that your niece and nephew will have this nest egg when you don't have it? It sounds like you are offended that your niece and nephew have more money than you and yet think that you should pay the funeral costs. Forget that line of thinking.

Niece and nephew are not paying the funeral costs, they need to get that out of their heads, your sister or your sister's Estate is. Everybody on this thread understands that that is the way that things are done in this country. So just ignore your niece she's sounding off about something on which she has no idea.

Grieving can make people behave badly
The nephew is grieving too but HE isn't behaving like a nasty, abusive, money grabbing twat - and there's only a year's difference between them.
Grief is not an excuse to abuse people.
OP and her family are also grieving.

OP, she was like this before her mum died - in fact she was like this with her mum up until 2 weeks before she died!
That tells you all you need to know about this madam.

It is all about money for her and she's made that very clear.
She doesn't even have the manners to thank you for doing all the hard slog as the executor.
Don't pander to her and i wouldn't be getting her any presents etc until she apologises and clears the air.

Your sister is the one who’s paid the costs-how much was it?

Is she concerned about getting that money back?

Yeah it’s not okay. She’s raw about her mum, but then why on earth wouldn’t you want to pay for a great send off for her. It’s not like they’re paying you for anything - it’s from their mother and for their mother!

You need to apologise to your nephew for losing your temper with him on the phone - he did absolutely nothing wrong and has also just lost his Mum.

@StepAwayFromGoogle

She did. RTFT

Sorry, somehow managed to skip page 2...

Horrible situation for you to be in, OP. I have only one suggestion to make - tell your nephew that it's common practice for the executors to give a statement of account to the beneficiaries when the estate is finally settled. He and his sister will be able to see exactly how the sums stack up and that you and your sister have been entirely above board.

You’re not being unreasonable. My father died a few years ago, my brother and l were the sole beneficiaries of the will. Once all expenses were paid including the funeral then we got less than £2k. It’s just one of those things. Who does think should pay?! She does sound bratty lm afraid and too used to getting her own way

Hi OP

Sory for your loss. I think YWBU - understandably though as it must be a stressful time

Maybe she was being cheeky, maybe she doesnt know how these things work - after all, why would she? It was fine to set her straight but maybe you could have done it in a nicer way and explained what usually happens.

But I think it was a bit wrong to let RIP at your nephew, and all the stuff about her behaviour, maybe its true and i can see why it came spilling out but that was never going to help. You've basically assassinated the personality and behaviour of a very young adult who's just lost their mum. Whilst you might have been right there is a time and place and this is not it. It was never going to achieve anything other than piss her off.

I would see if you can meet up and apologise for losing your temper and say you've all been under stress, you need to stick together and can you all move past it. Also explain how it normally works with funerals

A 20 year old would only just have been starting to transition to an adult-adult relationship with her mum, and would only just have been leaving teenage clashes behind. Developmentally we are not adults until 25.

I'm sorry for your loss, but judging by the way you're treating these poor kids who've watched their mum die you have no idea what it's like to lose your mum as a teenager or 20 year old.

She's facing a milestone birthday without her mum, in fact her first birthday without her mum, knowing that she will go through her entire adult life and every single milestone and moment that she would have been expecting to share with her mum, without her.

Instead she's going to watch her peers do what she will never experience and watch them take it for granted, while she has a mum-shaped gap at every special moment in her life from now on.

Do you have any idea what that is like? There are people who never recover from that kind of loss. Her first birthday without her mum and it's her 21st - and you're throwing a strop and cancelling it? What the hell. Do you think your sister would want that?

And to top it off you're point scoring and cutting her off. That's low.

It's not about you. No matter how much you're hurting, your sister's kids should be coming first and you need to step back and think about what this is actually like for them. All of their peers still have the support and involvement of their mums - and probably will for another thirty or so years - and they've lost that forever. And now have their aunt kicking off because of a miscommunication.

I don't even understand why you're directing anger at your nephew for being on the receiving end of your behaviour and stuck in the middle!