To wonder honestly what must go on in the minds of some men?

[VladmirsPoutine]

I've just taken my niece out for lunch. She's 16 and with the arrival of the weather she's been wearing a t-shirt and a mini skirt with her converse. Typical look for your typical teen but for just during lunch alone she was accosted by 2 different men who asked for her number. Both men clearly middle-aged and trying their luck. I admit she does look older than a teen but sheer audacity of these men hitting on a 16 year old girl really riled me.

Why aren’t - what appears to be a fairly large proportion of - men just capable of being decent humans?!

Ego? Which is why men target women significantly younger than themselves to "prove" they've still "got it". Then you have people like Neil Strauss et al turning women into objects that should be "grateful" for any attention.

Boak.

i have seen men staring at DD16 and I usually glare at them intensely and make a point of moving away and I would say something if it was OTT

I was totally shafted on MN once when a man approached my DD in a shop and I reacted to angrily tell him to leave her alone. It turned out he was a store detective but he didn’t introduce himself and was standing really close to her, it made me really uncomfortable and sadly it is based on years of low and mid level sexual harassment I have endured that made me assume he was sinister. I apologised to him but also pointed out he should have told her who he was, and me when I walked over but he didn’t.

That is awful. I can remember it happening to me, frequently, from the age of 12 and that was before mini skirts. Yeuch. I began to think it was normal, to be expected.

Thank goodness there are plenty of decent, respectful men around who wouldn't dream of doing that and I married one.

Saddens and sickens me in equal measure. Sad that our young women and girls are expected to STILL be dealing with this, in 2019. And sickened by the idea that these predatory, delusional beasts are roaming free, presumably utterly unaware that their behaviour is anything other than perfectly normal

I mean, do they talk to their own daughters that way??

When I was a very innocent 15 year old, a randy old biker, in at least his mid-forties, told my older sister to let him know when my 16th birthday was so that "It'd be legal". Did he think I was going to let him get anywhere near me? He was gross. He stank.

My 13 year old daughter and I were in an empty car park in Cornwall removing our wetsuits after body boarding. We were cold and wet. We had swimwear on underneath. I wrapped myself in a towel and as I hopped into the car I noticed a car pull up opposite us with an older man driving with what I presume was his wife in the passenger seat. He was very obviously watching my daughter taking off her wetsuit. He was smiling! Obviously enjoying himself. I was fuming and bundled my daughter into a towel and the car as quick as I could.
At this point my son and husband returned and I pointed the guy out. My husband stood in front of the old guys car and pulled his wetsuit to his ankles. He never wears anything under his wetsuit so this guy got a serious close up of a hairy bare butt.
The old guy couldn't get away fast enough as my husband was very angry and it showed. You could see his wife shouting at him to drive away quick.
We laughed about it at the time but I'm still angry that the old guy thought it was acceptable to watch a child and a woman changing with his wife sat next to him. We'd have felt very vulnerable if we'd have been on our own which I suppose he was banking on.

This is awful. My DD is only 3. Would it be terrible to teach her (when she is older) that an acceptable answer to men who are treating her like this is "fuck off"?

I am being completley serious by the way. Over the age of 13, if a middle aged man approached her (or anyone over the age of 17) is it okay to tell her to respond this way?

I was out for drinks with some paunchy, unattractive male colleagues when they started talking about how sexy Natalie Portman was in The Professional. When she was 14.

When I pointed out that she had been a child at the time they said all men wanted to f*ck the 14-year-old version of her and any who didn't were lying.

Obviously a significant number of men haven't evolved from the Neanderthal age. How bloody depressing.

It started for me around aged 13. I would tell them my age and the typical response was always "oh, I don't mind". No, it's fucking ILLEGAL you disgusting pig.

@hidinginthenightgarden Fundamentally you are right. We need to speak up more and not appease them. She would be very well entitled to tell them to Fuck Off. I looked at her reaction and it was very much trying to get away whilst appeasing them. I was furious.

Disgusting. I dated a guy once who I caught eyeing up school girls (they must have been 14/15). I left him on the spot. It’s vile, sickening behaviour.

I had this when I was younger. Older men blatantly perving and some approaching me. Used to literally make me feel sick

gokartdillydilly, that is so gross.

I agree with alligator, it's dreadful that girls and women are still having to put up with such things.

Someone I know, a young woman, was harassed at work by a man pushing sixty. He even went as far as e-maling her a picture of his bits!

She complained to HR, produced the evidence, and what did they do? Nothing! Even said the man had worked there a long time and they doubted he meant any harm. It was outrageous. The girl was advised to take the matter further (it made her feel quite ill), but she didn't want the hassle and moved on to another, better job. She has a little daughter and she and partner will bring her up not to take such treatment from anyone. One lives in hope that by that time it won't happen but I'm not holding my breath.

what really gets me about this, is most of these men honestly think it's no big deal because in their heads, the girl can just say no. So they figure they're trying it on, but if they ask enough young girls, one might actually say yes. But they are OBLIVIOUS to the fact that for a 15 year old girl, a 40 year old main who probably weighs at least twice as much as she does and who, as a grown adult is technically an "authority figure" is not someone they can just tell to fuck off. They all just think it's a bit of a laugh. And somehow, 40 years of feminism etc has made zero dent on this.

I mean, I find it bizarre that they actually want to have sex with children too. Obviously.

I worry about both of my DC. But I'm not going to lie, I worry about DD as a teenager more from predators. Of course it DOES happen to boys and we are preparing DS to understand he can't assume everyone is a good person, but DS is far less likely to have inappropriate comments and propositions made to him while he's alone and out and about in his day to day life.

And also, this attitude can be seen whenever we see one of these cases of a young teenage girl running off with her teacher or when her father/grandfather/uncle abuses her and the courts and the press refer to her as having lovers. Or there's sympathy for the teacher because he was just so "genuinely in love". She's a CHILD FFS. It doesn't matter.

OP I'm glad you posted about this. This morning I was taking my DD's to school and a bloke who must have been at least 30 was openly staring at my eldest. He actually stopped. She is 11 and looks it. I am dreading the teenage years as I feel sad for both my girls having to deal with this shit.

Of course it DOES happen to boys and we are preparing DS to understand he can't assume everyone is a good person, but DS is far less likely to have inappropriate comments and propositions made to him while he's alone and out and about in his day to day life.

Agree. Just be aware that boys are likely to simply internalise and that there are still massive stereotypes relating to sexualised abuse of boys. Personal experience.

@FudgeBrownie2019
‘She’s not mine’ so you said nothing?
What a weird bloody attitude! She’s a young girl and you’re the adult, defend her and protect her, would you like that attitude towards your DC? Ffs why won’t women stand up for each other?

No i wouldn’t tell them to tell these disgusting men to ‘fuck off’. Especially if they’re alone and they’re quite young. It’s sexual language and doesn’t increase their safety any, using it.
Unfortunately.

I was 14 and with my mum in town. A builder whistled and shouted something disgusting.

Long story short, mum ended up the scaffolding asking the man how his father, mother, grandparents will feel when they find out he sexually harassed a 14 year old girl.

The foreman threatened to call the police and have her arrested. She told them she one do one better. And called dad at work who was a police officer on duty in the cell area less than half a mile away and put him on loud speaker and told him what happened.

The builders all shit themseleves and couldnt apologise enough. I told them their apologies meant nothing. But maybe it would make them think in future.

Dad called the head office of the building form and kicked off too.

Its disgusting when they do this. Its horrid and it makes women feel intimidated and horrible.

No i wouldn’t tell them to tell these disgusting men to ‘fuck off’. Especially if they’re alone and they’re quite young. It’s sexual language and doesn’t increase their safety any, using it.
Unfortunately

Agreed. I’d be very afraid of male violence. I taught her to get help, which apparently is optional from train employees. Big up the brotherhood 🙄.

@FudgeBrownie2019
I fully understand the thread, you’re the one standing silent while a 13 yr old gets verbal off of sleazy men. I have 3 DD and would defend them and any of their friends. Don’t turn your pathetic attitude on me. No woman is to blame but you always call them out not stand silent because she’s not your child.

How depressing.

My gran told stories of having to deal with similar when she was 13.
My mum has stories of dealing with it.
I remember it from about 12 until 20, which is about the age my anger emerged and I learned to swear like a sailor at them. In fact, my mum remembers being warned about the way men sat watching me in a swimming costume when I was about 10. I was just a normal 10 year old girl.

Every single woman I know has stories like this and I suspect they will continue to do so for as long as the wider world perpetuates the idea that (esp. young) women are a just a receptical for hetero. male pleasure.

I'm not even convinced saying "she's only 13" helps. In most cases, it's pretty bloody obvious the girl is under age and so can only conclude her age is part of the appeal. Not least because she is unlikely to have the experience or confidence to call them out for the pathetic little sh*ts they are.