To wonder honestly what must go on in the minds of some men?

[VladmirsPoutine]

I've just taken my niece out for lunch. She's 16 and with the arrival of the weather she's been wearing a t-shirt and a mini skirt with her converse. Typical look for your typical teen but for just during lunch alone she was accosted by 2 different men who asked for her number. Both men clearly middle-aged and trying their luck. I admit she does look older than a teen but sheer audacity of these men hitting on a 16 year old girl really riled me.

Inappropriate sexual advances to young/ middle aged/older women are a form of bullying.
I remember walking to school with ankle socks on... that was always a red rag to a bull from passing male motorists, sometimes old enough to be our Dads. Screams of hello darling, wanna lift etc etc, I remember yelling fuck off I will report you, being chased and hiding behind a hoarding as he started yelling bitch over and over.
It is a prelude to rape when men behave like salivating dogs. It's hateful.
Most women have been assaulted at some stage whether as children or as adults, I find when I talk to women.

And that is the thing-most of us have been assaulted and just assume it’s what happens. This thread is really opening my eyes up to what we think is normal,actually should not be tolerated. I would be appalled if my daughter experiences what I went through. Already I see her excusing her father’s abusive behaviour,because he has always been like that. I have sons and I really hope they do not emulate their father. Currently they would not,but I’ve seen reversion to type all too often

I can't see this getting any better all the while we carry around smartphones on our person which give men access to any kind of porn they want any time & any where. These creeps have it to hand and it's such a big part of their lives so they find it hard to divorce their wank fodder from reality. Propositioning strangers in everyday situations is a common theme in porn, fuelling the fantasy every female is gagging for it.

I'm just so sorry that you've all experienced this, and your children.

This was just around 6pm when my 18 year old was in the local town centre, waiting for her friends to show up, wearing a shortish black skirt and pointy clumpy boots: "I'm also looking forward to the guys getting here because you'd think some people had never seen legs before...Mainly the guys twice my age trying to stare at my ass bothers me. Like mate your old enough to be my dad, how about you stop, before you see what I can do with these pointy boots."

It's disgusting.

Thanks Steve. I know you shouldn't have to apologise for all men but I feel a little less depressed every time I hear an actual man acknowledge the inappropriate behaviour of other men. It reminds me that there are some good men out there.

This is not a recent thing (referring to access to porn on phones), I am 54. This happened to me regularly 40 years ago. It is a lifelong thing, the only difference is that now it is normalising it, putting men in touch with other men who share the same depravities.

I used to travel from central London to north London for school and I ran the gauntlet every day on public transport, ranging from them groping to asking me to go out with them. Men used to hang around our school gate trying to watch us play tennis. Male teachers used to stare. We used to get taken out to theatre workshops in a well known theatres, the actors made it quite clear that they were loving having free access to young girls. So many examples, so many perverts.

I wonder why we worry and fret about relationships and men. They are not worth it. They have not really evolved into full human beings.

I like the story of the woman who got a load of abuse from some workman and quietly moved their ladder so they were stuck on the roof. I hope that ones true

Disgusting! call me naive but when I saw a play recently about locker room talk- actual comments made by men interviewed about how they talk about women, I was appalled. The words were voiced by women in the play. The worst was young guys talking about who they would shag and whether these women were a 'paper bag' or a 'plastic bag' number ie would they let them live afterwards or not... In the discussion afterwards it transpired that this group of young men were doctors...sharp intake of breath all round...

Do you remember the brass eye comedy thing laughing at people who saw paedos round every corner? Turns out they got that one pretty fucking wrong and the paedos round every corner brigade were sadly right. A junior teacher hit on my 17 year old sister in a weird threatening way when they were on a school related errand. My father got him sacked. Actually my dad would go nuclear at men like that and would even get into fights with any man swearing in front of his dds. No hassle when he was around. His friend was fired from teaching for having an affair with a pupil dad never spoke to him again and wrote him a letter saying how disgusted he was. So my Male role model fought back

Everyone on this thread- read ‘everyday sexism’ by Laura Bates. Best fiver you’ll spend on the cause of our daughters. It will prob male you mad- I think we need to get mad to sort out this mess.

Appropriate typo make*

Brilliant typo!

@Sarcelle, same age, same shit. There is definitely easier access to porn and more disturbing porn but men have never needed that when it comes to being creepy, perverted pieces of shit. Obvs NAM, but way, way too many of them.

read ‘everyday sexism’ by Laura Bates

Indeed. And "Invisible Women" by Caroline Criado Perez.

All teenagers should be made to read Everyday Sexism. Boys especially.

How depressing, nothing has changed since I was a teenager. I'd actually forgotten how angry this shit used to make me feel, of course after I'd got away and stopped being scared of whichever old creep it was this time. I wasn't particularly attractive either, very ordinary.

And this despite the fact that what most of these middle-aged perverts REALLY need in a partner is the ability to administer first aid and spot the signs of a heart attack, the sweaty old excitable scumbags.

^^
This made me laugh.

God remember the French and Saunders dirty old men sketch- they nailed that

Hi all.
I think a really good thing for us to do would be to start talking about ways to respond to this terrible behaviour in a way that will embarrassing and deter these perves which will then empower those being subjected to it.
Any ideas welcome.
Mine would be to actually call the pedophile instead of perves.
Shout that I will call the police
Get my phone out and start reading out the definition of a pedophile.
This needs to stop!!!
There is no way I will have my daughter ( she’s 18 months now)being subjected to this in the future.

For so many men, the ideal woman is actually a child.

Think about it. The ideal woman is docile and compliant. The ideal woman doesn’t challenge men. The ideal woman unquestioningly submits to the authority and superior intellect of a man. The ideal woman is small and weak and in need of protection from a man. She’s a child, a fucking child!

When infantising actual adult women started to fail, is it so surprising that these Neanderthals moved on to actual children?!

Nature or nurture? I have no idea. But look at the constant stream of child-women fed to men by the media. Re-watch those 1980s movies and cringe.

They want us child-like and powerless.

My DH is Old but no way would he approach any female no matter what age in a cafe never mind ask for her number. It's not the age but the mentality of the men that is the concern. Just how old did the 16 year old girl look - early 20s? Puts a different complexion on the situation perhaps.

My friend’s dad tried it on with me when I was 15. I’d called for and he invited me in whilst he went to call her except he knew she wasn’t in. He then tried to flirt with me and touch me. He was vile! Like a fat old toad. I was a skinny virgin, barely any ‘curves.’ What was he thinking?

Its awful our girls have to deal with this. When my daughter was 13 she was crossing Philadelphia each day on public transport and took to wearing multiple hoodies to cover up her body because she was getting so many middle aged men trying to chat to her. She took to saying "I'm 13" if they tried to chat and then if they carried on bei ng obviously flirty she would say "dude, I told you I'm 13. Don't get creepy." She has the same problem on instagram now she is 15. She is very feminist right now and is trying to fond ways to make it clearer to men that no woman ever wants an invitation to come sit on the lap of some sweaty older man on a bus... her friends are taking a self defense class. It shouldn't need to be a thing and it makes me so mad that it still is.

I'd second self defence classes - not because we should have to but for the confidence it gives you. I think having that confidence is the first step to girls feeling able to vocalise to men when they are giving unwanted attention.

I still get shocked when men cat-call. A guy on a scooter slowed right down yesterday and made a weird "oh myyyyyyy, uuuuggggh yeaaaaah!" as he followed me along the pavement . I refuse to look at them and try to keep walking without giving them the satisfaction of thinking I heard. I do wonder if that is more effective than shouting back? I suspect each guy is different in what is worse for their ego.

My sisters 44 year old boyfriend touched me up when we all had to share a bed once. I was fifteen. He laughed in my face when I pushed him off. It's disgusting.

Also tons of flashers, gropers, leerers etc from the age of 12 (am now in my fifties). I certainly think it's nurture not nature. Guys who are generally pretty mature and civilised people don't do this. The creepy ones are pretty creepy in other ways too. Like rape, it's a power and control thing for inadequate men. But it's not helped by cultural norms that excuse it and victim blame. And rags like the DM which have tons of articles about what women look like, and not what they've achieved. I'd love a spoof article talking about what men are wearing, their flabby bits: Sean Penn rocking skinny shorts. Mark Ruffalo''s trim pins in teeny swimsuit. Chris Pine wearing daring low cut T shirt; bit of side boob on show. That's why we really shouldn't read the DM. It's full of this shit.

But you know you're not making it up when you get pestered while wearing a duffle coat and flat boots. Definitely not asking for it. When you're with your girlfriends in the middle of the day and some old goat comes up behind you and puts their hand up your skirt and you've not even noticed them, let alone given them the eye. Or when you're coming home pretty sober from a late night out and some guy is wanking round the corner in front of you for maximum scare factor. (All of which happened to me).

It clearly happens less as you get older (post 30). But not because you're less attractive. It's because you are far less likely to be intimidated or scared (they love this, it adds to the thrill) and you're far more likely to turn the power tables on them.