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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to think that this child should be allowed to compete as a girl? Transgender topic.

999 replies

Cassort · 02/07/2019 00:53

www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/48800075/transgender-skater-fighting-to-compete?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3SHOZZproHs8lkaYi9tz5VcKPnE9xQRt7AR8m8rRPu5lPTJkp1m1808Os

It's an 11 year old (born male) ice skater. There's a little video where to me she looks female.

I daren't put this on the feminism board, but AIBU to think that in 20 years time we will look back in shame at how we have treated transgendered individuals?

I just put myself in those shoes for 5 hours. What on earth would I think? How much hate would I feel? How fucked up/strange/weird would I feel?

I have a very uneasy feeling in my soul about the vociferous opposition to transgenderism on MN currently. It doesn't sit comfortably with me.

I came across this story just now and it's typical of I suppose what the feminist MNers want transgender people to face. I.e. that they can't...

Should she compete as a girl? Or AIBU?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
ClaryFray · 02/07/2019 18:49

Yabu.

Men and women have differnt bodies. Men are for the most part psychically stronger than women. It isn't a level playing field to all of w those born male. To play those born female.

Male. Female. Trans. Is the way forward.

FromEden · 02/07/2019 18:53

This yet again descends into hating on the trans community

Where are these posts showing hatred towards the trans community? Women saying no and standing up for the rights of women and girls on a level playing field is not hatred.

If Usain bolt next week decided he was really a woman, should he be allowed to compete as a female also?

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 02/07/2019 18:54

Not that old tripe again. The only hate I see is male against women. Geddit? Try again.

JacquesHammer · 02/07/2019 18:55

This yet again descends into hating on the trans community

Wanting to maintain women’s sport for women isn’t trans hating

It's actually sickening

I agree. Why are women expected to put up with this shit? And this potential danger to their safety?

colourlessgreenidea · 02/07/2019 18:56

This yet again descends into hating on the trans community

Could you show me the ‘hate’, please?

Ascreed · 02/07/2019 18:59

She began to behave definitively like a girl. She wore dresses, props, tried several times to pierce her ear to wear her sister's earring... At school, her biggest dream was to wear skirts and hair bows like the other girls...at home she spent hours in front of the mirror realizing her dream, carefully decorating her hair, her ear with her colorful earrings, and adjusting her skirt in uniform."

I find that very sad and were moving backwards, towards lots of gendered stereotypes compared to just a few years ago where campaigns like toys are toys we're very popular. Now we're moving to a very sexist standpoint of if you like x y z therefore you must be a girl. All of this is man-made bullshit, why does a dress = a girl. It's just clothing.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 02/07/2019 19:00

What sex are the parents?

Datun · 02/07/2019 19:02

Absolutely @Cassort I agree she should totally be allowed to compete with the other little girls.
This yet again descends into hating on the trans community.
It's actually sickening

I couldn't put it better myself!

(Unless...sorry, perhaps this isn't irony??)

motherofcats81 · 02/07/2019 19:05

I don't understand how you can worry for this child OP but not for any of the girls who will be disadvantaged by having to compete against biological males? Why does this child matter more than them?

So this ^.

It is a very difficult issue OP and I feel for the individual trans people involved - I have a trans child in my family - but why does that supersede the rights and feelings of everyone else? Where trans women are competing against biological females they are taking the medals, we are seeing that already. So you are saying you are absolutely fine with all women and girls, who have been fighting for their rights for centuries and for the recognition of female sport as something that isn't an afterthought (I mean, this is the very first year the Women's World Cup has been shown on prime time TV!) having those taken away in order so that the much fewer trans individuals have their feelings accommodated?

I would recommend watching the recent BBC documentary on this with Martina Navratilova if you haven't already. One thing it also shows is that there is no reason why trans women shouldn't compete in male sports still - it is only the stigma men may attach to this that is the issue, but they showed a trans woman Formula One driver who had got past this and was completely accepted.

So when you say that it is women who aren't moving over, you are ignoring the fact that actually men could too, but they won't, so women are once again being asked to be the accommodating ones at the expense of their own rights and achievements.

HorridHenrysNits · 02/07/2019 19:05

How is wearing skirts behaving like a girl? Fuck that.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 02/07/2019 19:05

Other girl - like them? Ie little boys in pigtails dressed like girls then?

FromEden · 02/07/2019 19:08

Still waiting for examples of the 'hate'. Funny how these can never be provided, but there's never a shortage of posters popping in to complain about it. it's just a soundbite people parrot that has no basis in reality. Women be nice or you are hateful bigots. [Hmm]

Oliversmumsarmy · 02/07/2019 19:11

allowed to compete with the other little girls

Other little girls makes the assumption that wearing a dress makes you change sex.

I don’t own a dress or a skirt does that make me a man?

cardibach · 02/07/2019 19:16

Let’s look at this a slightly different way. I chose to be a teacher. In choosing that (and you’ll find many, many threads on here backing this up) I chose never to have an out of season holiday as long as I’m working, never to go to Glastonbury Festival, to have lots of out of hours work... It’s the consequence of my choice.
I respect the choice of anyone to identify with the opposite gender (I’m not sure I really know what that means, but I’ll accept that these people do) I’ll use the correct names and pronouns and accept them into my spaces. However in return I think, as a consequence of this choice, as I have to give up stuff because of my choice to teach, these people should give up competing in serious sport, give up careers which would put them in sensitive situations with people of their chosen gender (care, for example). Does that sound ok?

AltasCloud · 02/07/2019 19:16

I hate dresses. I hate make up, dressing up, high heels and painted nails.

[Checks crotch]

Yup, still female!

Whatjusthappenedthere · 02/07/2019 19:17

Allowed to participate , yes, it’s part of her transition into the world she belongs. Maybe not allowed to win. Let’s face it, these types of decisions are made all the time for little ones in the name of helping them grow into the people they want to be.
X

SoupDragon · 02/07/2019 19:20

Maybe not allowed to win

Then what's the point?

marvellousnightforamooncup · 02/07/2019 19:20

She began to behave definitively like a girl. She wore dresses, props, tried several times to pierce her ear to wear her sister's earring... At school, her biggest dream was to wear skirts and hair bows like the other girls...at home she spent hours in front of the mirror realizing her dream, carefully decorating her hair, her ear with her colorful earrings, and adjusting her skirt in uniform."

Oh shit, does this make me a boy? I wore jeans and black wellies and played with toy guns.

Good post btw Motherofcats.

colourlessgreenidea · 02/07/2019 19:20

it’s part of her transition into the world she belongs

Could you expand on this? I don’t understand what you mean.

these types of decisions are made all the time for little ones in the name of helping them grow into the people they want to be

Ditto this bit - what types of decisions do you mean?

JacquesHammer · 02/07/2019 19:21

Allowed to participate , yes, it’s part of her transition into the world she belongs. Maybe not allowed to win

How would that work?

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 02/07/2019 19:22

What sex are the parents?
Two biological men in a gay relationship:
Why?

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 02/07/2019 19:25

Just wondering if one/both were trans. Kids do copy.

Oliversmumsarmy · 02/07/2019 19:29

She began to behave definitively like a girl. She wore dresses, props, tried several times to pierce her ear to wear her sister's earring... At school, her biggest dream was to wear skirts and hair bows like the other girls...at home she spent hours in front of the mirror realizing her dream, carefully decorating her hair, her ear with her colorful earrings

I know a boy who used to do all those things.

He is now a plumber with a gf

Notthetoothfairy · 02/07/2019 19:34

It’s a clash of rights. In America, a talented girl came third in a race because she was beaten by two boys who identified as female but were biologically male and therefore had the advantage. If a greyhound were to identify as a snail, it would have a huge advantage in snail races so shouldn’t be allowed to compete even if it wanted to.

colourlessgreenidea · 02/07/2019 19:35

So far on this thread, I’ve asked flamey what their understanding of ‘woman’ is; I’ve asked lottie2888 to show me the ‘hate’ on the thread; and I’ve asked whatjusthappened to clarify some sentences in their post that I couldn’t unpack.

I was polite in all of my requests.

As far as I can tell, unless I’ve missed the posts, no one has responded.

I don’t think they were unanswerable questions or rude questions, were they? Confused