AIBU to think that this child should be allowed to compete as a girl? Transgender topic.

[Cassort]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/48800075/transgender-skater-fighting-to-compete?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3SHOZZproHs8lkaYi9tz5VcKPnE9xQRt7AR8m8rRPu5lPTJkp1m1808Os

It's an 11 year old (born male) ice skater. There's a little video where to me she looks female.

I daren't put this on the feminism board, but AIBU to think that in 20 years time we will look back in shame at how we have treated transgendered individuals?

I just put myself in those shoes for 5 hours. What on earth would I think? How much hate would I feel? How fucked up/strange/weird would I feel?

I have a very uneasy feeling in my soul about the vociferous opposition to transgenderism on MN currently. It doesn't sit comfortably with me.

I came across this story just now and it's typical of I suppose what the feminist MNers want transgender people to face. I.e. that they can't...

Should she compete as a girl? Or AIBU?

For anyone interested, looking into the allegations of corruption against para sports is an indicator of what is to come with some countries and their trans athletes

www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/oct/31/terrible-coming-age-paralympic-sport

There's a whole difference between a prepubescent child who is biologically male competing as a girl and an adult (who went through puberty as a male) competing as a woman.

What if this child takes hormone treatment so that her body develops into that of a woman rather than a man? What sex should she compete as then??

@flameylife if you see any transphobia on this thread, or on MN in general, please report it. Transphobia is not acceptable.

But neither is misogyny. Think about it.

Tbh, I’m still laughing at the OP declaring she has put herself in those shoes for 5 hours. No love, you really haven’t.

Also loving all the “looking like a girl” nonsense from OP. First trans person I met was 30 years ago, a lady who drove a lorry for the company I worked at. Built like a brick shit house, she absolutely looked like a man in a dress. Every respect to her for her bravery. Of course, people like OP are always going to choose the more feminine looking boys to wear the shoes of. Yet she’s just reinforcing that it’s how you LOOK that makes you male or female. Why don’t you come back when you’re championing a trans girl who looks the very picture of traditional masculinity, OP? Try out there shoes hey? (for 5 hours )

In most sports, up to the age of about 11 girls and boys can compete together, it's almost as though prepubescent children are asexual.
Once puberty kicks in, it's a completely different kettle of fish.

What if this child takes hormone treatment so that her body develops into that of a woman rather than a man?

Hormone treatments won’t cause her to develop the body of a woman.

They will cause her to develop the body of a chemically modified, infertile male. Chromosomes and genetic make-up will not be magically transformed into that of a woman.

@BuzzShitbagBobbly - That is before you even consider the twitch muscle fiber, muscle density, speed, lung capacity, muscle density and rib cage size.

Without being disingenuous, a top level male club team (non premiership) would beat the England National female team. This is just a fact on the basis of genetics.

On the same note the England National Woman's team would wallop a female club team.

It is not disrespectful, it is just science. Why do you not see many people of colour winning swimming events at the Olympics, but generally top 3 in any event under 400m and over 1500m. It is based on their genetic make up. Its not racist, its just science.

The same way saying that trans athletes who had the advantages of male puberty and all the changes a males has over a females (primarily in lung capacity and strength) does not lose those advantages, even with hormone treatment. It just caps any further advantages materialising.

"I came across this story just now and it's typical of I suppose what the feminist MNers want transgender people to face. I.e. that they can't..."

It's not just the feminists that think that males should not be competing against females in women's sports.

It's pretty much everyone.

It's complete unfair to female athletes and will destroy women's sports if allowed to continue.

It's not just the feminists that think that males should not be competing against females in women's sports.

It's pretty much everyone.

It's complete unfair to female athletes and will destroy women's sports if allowed to continue.

Amen to that.

As a side note, the evil feminists really carry on getting a pounding though

Mumsnet is where the transphobes organise.

The posters on this thread are concerned about the potential damage to girls'interests should this child be allowed to compete against girls and, by extension, the harm done to women's sports and women's interests by the inclusion of men who identify as women.

To frame our factual, thoughtful pro women arguments as anti trans says a whole lot more about the militant transactivist agenda than it does about women here. Trans ideology is relentlessly misogynist and homophobic. Women who resist its demands are routinely met with rage and threats. It's grim.

We had our last primary school sports day recently and it was noticeable that there were fast boys and fast girls but by age 11 the fast boys were the winners of each race.

Cassort

I'm just thinking that this child can probably be female in everything but sport. Which seems to be her thing

What? This child will never be female in anything

someone is going to have an advantage somehow. And I just don't feel that if that advantage is that they are genetically male, while quintessentially female

This child is not "quintessentially female", there is nothing female about them, unless you are equating being a feminine male as being a female, which makes you sexist.

WTF is quintessentially female?

In fact, many of us are still waiting to find out what feeling like a woman is.

i'm talking about transexual females.

There is no such thing. A male cannot become female.

WTF is quintessentially female?

Indeed

If they are so young that sex makes no difference then it should be mixed sex. Or if it's in a sport that makes no difference like dressage (which I believe is mixed).

Once they sex does make a difference it's only fair to segregate by biological sex not "gender" or "gender identity". That's the only rationale for having single sex categories so it's bizarre to let anyone with a male body compete with females.

Wow @BuzzShitbagBobbly you're literally looking me up to bully me. This only proves my points. Mumsnet is full of bully's. Not much solidarity between the biological women on here either 😆. I don't think reproductive systems make women 'real women' because that's what misogynists think! Also yeah I do feel vulnerable being pregnant but I don't feel at all threatened and never have by trans women. People here pull shit to scare people out of their a*ses.

WTF is quintessentially female?

Apparently, according to the OP, being biologically male.

If you have a sporty daughter you will understand believe me flamey

flameylife

Also yeah I do feel vulnerable being pregnant but I don't feel at all threatened and never have by trans women. People here pull shit to scare people out of their ases.*

You tell me at what point, and what has to happen for a man who identifies as a woman, to acquire all the female attributes that show women are statistically less of a risk?

What does it involve? At what point are they statistically the same as women?

Like Karen White here. At what point would you say they posed the same risk as women?

Bold fail, soz.

People are dying in the world and the activism middle class (lets be honest) Mumsnetters choose is to actively work to dehumanise and take away the rights of other people who haven't done almost anything bad yes cherry pick like you all do but that's the truth. Brave stuff you're doing guys I hope you're children will be proud of you for it when you're gone.

ICanWearMyBoobsUpOrDown It must be very hard.