WIBU - man in women's changing rooms (NOT A TRANS THREAD)

[NewAccount270219]

This occurred earlier today and I have been stewing since. I am aware that it is very trivial.

I took DS (nearly one) to a baby swim class earlier. It wasn't our usual one as that was cancelled due to another baby pooing in the pool and so they offered us this one as a replacement class.

Today, after the class, a man with two little girls (I would say aged 8 and 10-ish - they were both wearing brownie uniforms so - IRC from my own brownie days - I guess that pins it down to upper primary?) WALKED INTO THE WOMEN'S CHANGING ROOM, just as I was finishing dressing and pulling my top over my head. The changing rooms are completely communal with no cubicles (the pool is a school one) and moments earlier I had been topless. I was quite taken aback by his presence.

I said, 'This is the women's!', he said 'I have to come in with them, they can't go in the men's', I said 'I was getting changed!', he said 'can't you go in the loo?'. Now, at this point I fully intended to explain eloquently and convincingly that I could hardly let DS crawl all around the loo floor while I got dressed, but what I actually did was get flustered, point to DS and say 'on the floor!', which I think confused matters as he was indeed, at that point, on the changing room floor and I think the man thought I had just begun saying things at random. So I left with all the dignity I could muster (not much, given that I'd just babbled incoherently at a stranger who had seen me in my bra).

ANYWAY, I was in the right, wasn't I? My sense of when children can do things isn't great, but you can send two brownie-aged ones to get changed, can't you? And if you can't then a man wandering into the women's changing room can't be the answer, can it?!

NB. I am a bit worried that this title will set off a klaxon somewhere so PLEASE don't turn this into a trans thread - it is nothing to do with that

I'm a swimming teacher is it not on he needs to take his DC to the Male changing rooms due to him being, it's a safe guarding issue. It's the same as taking you're child the toilet of your sex rather than you're childs.

He can't though can he, because they are too old. I don't agree with what he did but the pool should provide changing facilities suitable for everyone, not just able bodied, NT children accompanied by same sex parents.

Whose rights are paramount here?

The right of a male parent to take his daughters swimming
or
The right of female swimmers to be able to change without a man walking in and potentially seeing them naked.

Since in 1 there is a choice and in 2 there apparently isn't, I'd say the male parent should choose not to take his daughters to a pool where there are no family changing rooms

I'd be HORRIFIED if that had happened to me

Part of me wishes I had the brass ovaries to shoo him out of the room and back into the communal area/reception, while being stark naked myself, and demand he explain to everyone why he was so keen to barge in on naked women and has he got enough of an eyeful yet.

Not all pools can be retrofitted to make them suitable for every possible combination. If there's one like this which is suitable for:

1. parents with babies and small children and
2. children capable and civilised enough to change without a parent (which most are by 8 IME)

Then saying it can't be used for those groups would just put more strain on facilities which are fully accessible. Is that what you really want?

But that pre supposes that the swimming lessons are offered over multiple sites. My children were in a swimming club in a school pool that was on a Saturday morning. It was the only one in the borough. If you couldn't go to that pool then there were no other options. So, if it had no family or disabled changing room then children requiring those facilities couldn't go. I really don't think that's right. They need to figure out a way to accommodate everyone.

They need to figure out a way to accommodate everyone.

That's certainly the ideal but I'd much rather some children learned to swim than none.

That's certainly the ideal but I'd much rather some children learned to swim than none.

Why none though? They need to find another room that can be used or restrict access to a changing room while one particular child or family use it. That isn't prohibitively expensive.

Otherwise, you're saying that only able bodied, NT children can learn to swim unless they can be taken by a parent of the same sex and tough luck to anyone who falls outside of that.

The assumption here is the man doesn’t want his girls to be seen by men or maybe even boys.

The logical thing then would have been for him to take the girls in the men’s and they get changed in the men’s loos. The first thing he could have done was check if there was anyone in the changing room first then get the girls to follow him.

The other logical thing would have been to leave them to change alone. Neither men nor older boys frequent the women’s changing room.

Are you going to complain?

The answer to accessibility issues is never, ever, for a man to go into a women's changing room.

Maybe certain posters can stop derailing the thread?

It is unacceptable for a man to be in a female changing room, there need be no mental gymnastics about it.
A woman entering a male changing room in use would quickly be told where to go and in no uncertain terms. Then again I can't think of any circumstance a woman would stroll in demanding that the men should use the toilets if they don't like it!

Fuck him telling you to use the toilet, entitled prick.

Yup.

At my daughter's swimming club they are told that parents aren't allowed in the changing rooms when the children are over 8 (barring special circumstances, obviously). 8 and 10 is perfectly old enough to get changed alone.

But that pre supposes that the swimming lessons are offered over multiple sites.

As I said upthread, they are. The swim school uses three different pools in our town.

They also might offer another room/special arrangements if there are SNs - I wouldn't know. Obviously they hadn't in this case, but I have no idea whether there were any SNs involved - some posters seem convinced there were but obviously I have no idea either way. For all I know they do have a solution if they have a child with SNs (but there is definitely no generally accessible disabled space that you could just decide to use).

I'm just composing an email now (have been at work all day). Will let you know of any response!

I had this in reverse when I took my son swimming a couple of weeks ago. I was sat outside waiting for him to get dried/dressed. He was in the boys changing room.
Another mum just wandered in and out several times to take things to the shower for her kids or god knows what. When she went to do it for the third time I said ‘can you stop going in the boys changing room? My sons in there getting dressed and he won’t be comfortable with it’ she was like ‘oh ok’ what fucking got me though is that there is a mixed sex changing room for this exact scenario so why the fuck weren’t her boys in there? Then she could have wandered in and out as much as she liked. Twat.

Oh and yanbu.

What makes you think that it would be appropriate for them to go into the men's Mummy? Do you not think men and boys want/deserve privacy too?

I have previously complained when a boy who seemed older than 7 was in the ladies changing room. My daughter (12) commented that he seemed too big to be less than 8 so I went and complained to the desk.

Someone came in immediately and challenged his presence, the mother pleaded ignorance.

My DD’s used to attend a holiday club at the local pool. I think DD2 was about 5, DD1 would have been 8. When I commented to one of the leaders that DD2 might need help after swimming (to do up her clothes, not getting dry) they said they were not allowed to help at all. I said that was fine, but perhaps someone could send DD1 in to assist. (I usually I would persuade her to wear a pull on dress, but that day she wasn’t co-operating). The club takes kids from 4. Th3girls fell in different age groups so swam at different times.

Same in ours. I noticed a man go into the ladies with his daughter one week and at the same time a woman go into the mens with her son!
They probably didn't realise that there was a baby and parent class at the same time and so there would be baked adults changing.
I did consider reporting, but didn't as we were just leaving. I will if I see it again.

Um naked adults, not baked...

BarbarianMum
Of course men want privacy and I’m sure 8 and 10 yos would not wish to see a naked unknown male anymore than the male would wish to see them. The pool is used for the swim school after x time from what I can make out. As the adult, he can ensure all men have left for the day and take the girls in the men’s if he’s so keen to be with them. He shouldn’t be taking it on himself to enter the women’s when there may still be women inside but can legitimately check the men’s first. To be clear, the girls should obvs not enter the changing facilities unless guaranteed to be no men....

My preferred option 100% would be for the girls to change alone.

Oh and ditto for boys. I imagine the reason for going in the women’s is because there are boys in the swim class.

I imagine the reason for going in the women’s is because there are boys in the swim class.

Yes exactly. The solution for him not invading the privacy of women and girls is not for his daughters to invade the boys privacy is it, it's for pools to provide changing facilities that meet the needs of the customers.

My DS (9) does have extra needs and couldn't be relied on to change alone. I would not dream of accompanying him into the men's! We use a pool with family changing or one with individual cubicles where I can wait outside, check he stays on task and doesn't wander off. You pick the right pool for your needs don't you?

Decomposing
Yes, that’s exactly what I mean. I wasn’t giving going in the men’s as a “magic solution” more as a rebuttal of the idiots logic, who has taken it upon himself to enter a women’s safe space.