WIBU - man in women's changing rooms (NOT A TRANS THREAD)

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This occurred earlier today and I have been stewing since. I am aware that it is very trivial.

I took DS (nearly one) to a baby swim class earlier. It wasn't our usual one as that was cancelled due to another baby pooing in the pool and so they offered us this one as a replacement class.

Today, after the class, a man with two little girls (I would say aged 8 and 10-ish - they were both wearing brownie uniforms so - IRC from my own brownie days - I guess that pins it down to upper primary?) WALKED INTO THE WOMEN'S CHANGING ROOM, just as I was finishing dressing and pulling my top over my head. The changing rooms are completely communal with no cubicles (the pool is a school one) and moments earlier I had been topless. I was quite taken aback by his presence.

I said, 'This is the women's!', he said 'I have to come in with them, they can't go in the men's', I said 'I was getting changed!', he said 'can't you go in the loo?'. Now, at this point I fully intended to explain eloquently and convincingly that I could hardly let DS crawl all around the loo floor while I got dressed, but what I actually did was get flustered, point to DS and say 'on the floor!', which I think confused matters as he was indeed, at that point, on the changing room floor and I think the man thought I had just begun saying things at random. So I left with all the dignity I could muster (not much, given that I'd just babbled incoherently at a stranger who had seen me in my bra).

ANYWAY, I was in the right, wasn't I? My sense of when children can do things isn't great, but you can send two brownie-aged ones to get changed, can't you? And if you can't then a man wandering into the women's changing room can't be the answer, can it?!

NB. I am a bit worried that this title will set off a klaxon somewhere so PLEASE don't turn this into a trans thread - it is nothing to do with that

I'd complain. Unless there's special needs then an 8 and 10 gear old can get changed themselves. Otherwise he needs to figure something else. This isn't the answer.

So you assume that children of any age always have a parent with them? Every school hosting a swim club must have family changing rooms to accommodate parents who don't teach basic behaviour?

Yes, imo, they should have a room for a parent of the opposite sex to help their child change. How else can children with additional needs access the facility?

And yes, children need to be taught to be independent but as I've witnessed at our gym, a group of young children unsupervised muck around and clearly aren't capable of changing independently because for whatever reason they aren't using the lockers and are leaving their belongings in the cubicles. What are other customers meant to do when they want to change?

So, a family changing room should be provided for children who can't yet change independently for whatever reason.

He’s a prick. Complain or he will do it again to other women and girls.

As a PP said, he’s getting off on the fact that he can do what he wants where he wants. It’s a power trip.

There are lots of reasonable alternatives.

Were there other children/parents around? Or could it be that the girls were having private swim lessons?
It doesn't make it right at all that dad was in the ladies but I can sort of see how this could occur especially if the children were having private lessons.

I used to attend a private all girls school with a pool and what sounds like a similar set up. There were both male and female changing rooms (however the male changing room was used by girls during the school day to make efficient use of facilities).
Evenings and weekends the pool was rented out to swim schools.

I could just see the scenario where the girls had regular private lessons. Nobody else is expected to be in the changing rooms as it's not open to the public. So they become a bit complacent and just walk in not expecting to see OP. Dad reacts badly because he is shocked/ embarrassed.

Just playing devils advocate here.

My sister and I would go at that age with our father and change by ourselves. Report to mgt.

I could just see the scenario where the girls had regular private lessons. Nobody else is expected to be in the changing rooms as it's not open to the public. So they become a bit complacent and just walk in not expecting to see OP. Dad reacts badly because he is shocked/ embarrassed

Man walks into women’s changing room which he expects to be empty. He find a half naked women and her baby. He is shocked / embarrassed , apologises profusely and leaves immediately .

That’s normal.

He doesn’t stand there and argue that

1. He has a right to be there
2. That if the women in the woman’s changing room objects, she has to go elsewhere
3. Then stay there until the woman leaves.

That is the behaviour of an entitled prick.

And anyway, if the pool wasn’t open to the public because of private lessons, why couldn’t the man and his children use the men’s changing room ?

Rosemary people react in very different way when faced with difficult situations. I doubt anyone of us hasn't at some point in our lives said something stupid at one point in our lives.

I would be furious if a man had walked in on me getting dressed. I would definitely complain. The question of what the man should have done in terms of getting the children changed is an interesting one, but, no matter your view on this, it doesn’t excuse this man entering the female changing room with no warning.

As for the ‘it wouldn’t have bothered me’ brigade, so? It obviously bothers most women, including the OP, so I’m not sure how that statement moves the discussion forward.

Were there other children/parents around? Or could it be that the girls were having private swim lessons?

If that had been the case there would have been no reason for them not to use the boys' changing room instead of the girls'.

Do you have any practical suggestions for what this particular location should do, decomposing? Or are you saying that if all cant be accommodated then no one should and the school shouldn't be allowed to rent the pool to swimming classes other than parents with babies or small children of up to 6 or 7?

Who knows why they didn't go in the men's. Could be lots of reasons

1. perhaps not private lessons but very small group with the rest being made up of boys.
2. girls feeling more comfortable in women's changing rooms
3. boys being the next lesson so would be in men's changing rooms
4. mum coming to watch the lesson or pick them up

Who knows what the reason was.

If they can't fulfill statutory obligations then no, I don't think they should be allowed to hire the pool out to the public. They are excluding all children who need assistance with changing unless they are accompanied by a same sex carer, how does that comply with the Equality Act?

Cannot see any reason why girls of 8 & 10 can't go in ladies' changing rooms by themselves wtf? Yanbu. He wbvu. If a dd had additional needs they need to make other arrangements not you - a woman in the women's changing room.

Whew, nice to get near-unanimous confirmation that IWNBU - I was expecting a lot of 'don't you have anything better to worry about?'!

How did we get to this place? Where women don’t even feel entitled to say to NO, men fucking well can’t come into a changing room where women and girls are naked? Where women think other women are going to give them a hard time for not being cool with the most blatant violation of our privacy?

How have we gone so far backwards in terms of our expectations of boundaries and our rights?

Madness.

OP, just report it via email to managers of the swimming pool. They will deal with it and he had NO right to.intrude into a safe cahbging space for women , same as I wouldn't into a safe male changing place for my DC if they were too old to come into my changing room with me . He was BVU.

How do you know they are not complying with the disability act? They may make special provision if it is needed.
I used to take a severely disabled boy into a changing room in a poll that the general public would not have known existed, because it was only available for real need, rather than - we prefer this.

@jennymanara
Because that agreement would be managed and in the male changing room of the gender the adult identifies with. Or in simple terms the male changing room!

Unless there was a separate agreement. Which there clearly wasn't or the females (or males if had been vica versa) would have been prewarned.

How do you know they are not complying with the disability act?

Well, I'm going on the info provided by the OP - that there are no other additional spaces. If there is alternative provision then why isn't it on offer for parents whose children need more supervision? Surely, if children are expected to change without adult supervision then no adults should be allowed in with them? How is it fair that a child with the same sex parent can have help to change but a child with the opposite sex parent can't?

I am not saying there is anything else on offer.
But I know I used a separate changing room that was just for those who really needed it. Not for parents who don't trust their 10 year olds to get changed alone. The pool where I used this changing room would not have entertained that for a minute. It was a club though, and the club organisers knew and arranged it.

We aren't necessarily talking about 10 year olds though are we? We're really talking about 8 year olds and I think that's a stretch to assume that all 8 year olds are able to get changed, collect their belongings and put them in a locker without messing around with their friends. Clearly many parents feel the same because they go into the changing rooms to supervise, it's just that they happen to be the same sex as their children and so that's permissable. I do think that it's unfair that children who don't have a same sex parent available can't have similar support if they can't manage to get ready independently.

My dad used to put me in a swimsuit under my clothes before we left home, towel dried me a bit after swimming and put the clothes over me, went home, properly changed at home. Why can't dads today just do this?

Cranstonmanor - exactly what my parents would have done since in those days it would have been unthinkable for a man to go into a women’s changing room, never mind act like an entitled arse if he did. It’s up to him to make adjustments, not the women for crying out loud. As I said in my earlier post all the dads I have polled were in no doubt at all that he was a pervy shithead who was getting off on the situation.

To be clear, I had no reason at all to suspect that he was perving, and I don't think he was. He seemed annoyed at my presence, not pleased. I think he was rude and entitled, but I don't think he was a sex offender.

I agree that it isn't an ideal set up for older children - as I said, I didn't realise they did classes for then. The pool is pretty small so I think the classes must be for weak/beginner swimmers as a strong swimmer couldn't do much in there. The swim school operates across multiple sites, so I don't know if there are better options at the other pools, I've only ever been to that one.

He wasn’t pleased?!

Are you going ahead with a complaint?

The lack of suitable changing facilities for families does not mean he can just walk in on undressed women in the female changing room!

How is it fair that a child with the same sex parent can have help to change but a child with the opposite sex parent can't?

they can, they just use the changing room that is for the adult.