WIBU - man in women's changing rooms (NOT A TRANS THREAD)

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This occurred earlier today and I have been stewing since. I am aware that it is very trivial.

I took DS (nearly one) to a baby swim class earlier. It wasn't our usual one as that was cancelled due to another baby pooing in the pool and so they offered us this one as a replacement class.

Today, after the class, a man with two little girls (I would say aged 8 and 10-ish - they were both wearing brownie uniforms so - IRC from my own brownie days - I guess that pins it down to upper primary?) WALKED INTO THE WOMEN'S CHANGING ROOM, just as I was finishing dressing and pulling my top over my head. The changing rooms are completely communal with no cubicles (the pool is a school one) and moments earlier I had been topless. I was quite taken aback by his presence.

I said, 'This is the women's!', he said 'I have to come in with them, they can't go in the men's', I said 'I was getting changed!', he said 'can't you go in the loo?'. Now, at this point I fully intended to explain eloquently and convincingly that I could hardly let DS crawl all around the loo floor while I got dressed, but what I actually did was get flustered, point to DS and say 'on the floor!', which I think confused matters as he was indeed, at that point, on the changing room floor and I think the man thought I had just begun saying things at random. So I left with all the dignity I could muster (not much, given that I'd just babbled incoherently at a stranger who had seen me in my bra).

ANYWAY, I was in the right, wasn't I? My sense of when children can do things isn't great, but you can send two brownie-aged ones to get changed, can't you? And if you can't then a man wandering into the women's changing room can't be the answer, can it?!

NB. I am a bit worried that this title will set off a klaxon somewhere so PLEASE don't turn this into a trans thread - it is nothing to do with that

Exactly what kind of building is going to solve the problem of badly behaved children in a swimming pool?

The type that makes provision for parents and children of the opposite sex.

What is the arrangement if the child has additional needs? Where can they change under this provision?

In pretty much every public swimming pool, in the UK at least, swimmers of 8 and over do not need to be accompanied in the water. So therefore it’s logical they can also change themselves using the appropriate facilities. Dignity and privacy are important and so in places without a mixed sex changing village over 8s need to use the appropriate facility for their sex.

Our gym does not allow children over the age of 8 in the wrong sex changing room. So he wouldn't be allowed to take his dds in the mens. And he certainly wouldn't be allowed in the womens.

What an entitled arse. How dare he think its his right to go in a room where there may be naked women.

Please, please report this as a matter of urgency. He needs to be stopped.

How does he think his dds manage to get changed for PE at school, or when they are away on brownie camp, etc? Of course they are old enough to dress themselves as this is what they will do at school, etc.

If he really thinks they can't manage he takes them in the disabled toilet (though not really fair on disabled people) or asks about using a cleaning cupboard or something.

And if their behavior is so bad that he can't trust them then he doesn't take them swimming!

If such behavior or other inability to dress themselves is due to additional needs then I sympathise. But this still doesn't mean that their needs trump those of a woman's need to not be seen naked by a strange man.

For a different perspective, I have asked 3 dads their opinions. Their unanimous answer:

• he was patently illogical since if he went in so would / could other dads, so the girls would be seen by men anyway

• his attitude betrayed him - his arrogance showed he was getting off on being around changing women, causing discomfort and assuming he would get away with it (which he will if you don’t report him). If it was genuine concern for his daughters (ridiculous as they’d be fine on their own at that age and safe around women) he would have been very apologetic.

• if other dads found him going into the ladies when their daughters were in there, they’d punch his lights out. He’s on thin ice.

You should report it to the management. Of course he can't just go wandering into a communal women's changing room

This. ^^

Report it by email.
8 & 10 year olds can get dressed alone. He's well out of order. If it was a public pool CCTV would have captured him. But least it needs is an email reminding parents and straight to management to ban him if he does it again.
I wouldn't dream of walking in a men's changing room for my DC for that age. Or at all. If they are too old to come in with me (IME up to 6) then they go get changed in their sex changing room. And I WAIT OUTSIDE!! SEN DCs are different but they go in changing room for sex if the adult with special agreement.

Complain and report and describe him or his DCs.

*Changing room for sex of the accompanying adult , I meant of course.

Yeah make sure you get changed in the toilet every time on the off chance a man needs to come in to the female changing room 🙄

How does he think his dds manage to get changed for PE at school, or when they are away on brownie camp, etc? Of course they are old enough to dress themselves as this is what they will do at school, etc.

Are 8 year olds left unsupervised to get changed at school?

And the OP has said that there aren't any disabled facilities so how do children with additional needs manage if they can't change alone and can't have their parent to help? These facilities aren't really fit for use by the public are they?

He sounds like a complete twonk. Sorry you had to deal with it. My (just) 6 year old changes herself after a swimming lesson so barring any special needs I'm sure his two could do the same.

Please definitely report it !!
I would hate this to happen to me or another woman, or my younger teen self....

The kids could go in on there own

If he really, really needs to help them for some reason, maybe a disabled loo or changing room

A decent bloke would be apologetic, he sounds like some sort of nasty opportunist 🤨

I think this is his modus operandi for perving on women

YANBU. Please do complain to the swim school. This entitled, arsehole behaviour needs to be called out every time. He was 100% in the wrong.

If he believes for whatever reason that his daughters can't change themselves without supervision, the onus is on him to find a solution. One that DOESN'T involve trampling over the dignity and privacy of women in female-only spaces.

8 and 10 and Brownies should be perfectly capable of getting changed themselves!
He should not have been in there

This would hugely upset me.
I can't believe he knew he was venturing into a female space yet his response was to ask of you, why^ couldn't you^ use the toilets. How could you even have predicted this would happen?! What a fucking prick.

I think the fact it's a school pool is very relevant (our swimming lesson pool is too).

It means there are no cubicles. But also that there is no 'public', only other swimming-lesson parents.

I wouldn't send dd (bit younger than these girls) alone into women's changing at a big public pool yet. I'm fine with her changing alone in an open changing room with the other swimming lesson girls and mums.

I'd be pretty freaked out if, having sent her into that 'safe' environment alone, one of the dads walked in while girls were changing. Though honestly, if he exited fast and apologetically (and only girls, no women were changing) I'd think 'just a dad making a silly mistake'. Attitude does seem to convey intention here.

YA so totally not BU there aren't enough "nots" to express this!

Do follow up with an email to pool management. In fact if it happens again, I'd be inclined to skip pool management if they're being ineffectual, and simply ring the police to report the guy for voyeurism (not that I think he actually is a voyeur, but because police involvement might be the only thing that would puncture his massive sense of entitlement).

Are 8 year olds left unsupervised to get changed at school

Pretty much. A teacher might stick their head round the door and chivvy them on now and then but they certainly don't have the time to help with putting clothes on. Dd had a male teacher at that age and he certainly wasn't in the room dressing them or watching them change!

But for pe they get changed in the classroom altogether don't they, with the teacher overseeing? 8 year olds are only year 3, are they left unsupervised in the classroom to change?

Our school didn't go swimming until year 5 and 6 and even then they had a member of staff in each changing room to supervise - they weren't left totally to their own devices.

His logic is flawed.

If his daughters can't go into the men's because of 'strange' (meaning stranger rather than odd) men, what makes him think that it's ok to go into the ladies changing room where there will be other girls and he will be a 'strange' (possibly in both senses) man?!

Love the 3 dads perspectives from PP. Please report the man OP. Arrogant and entitled he is.

But for pe they get changed in the classroom altogether don't they, with the teacher overseeing?

PE changing for little kids - outer clothes only - is a quite different matter to changing for swimming.

The type that makes provision for parents and children of the opposite sex

So you assume that children of any age always have a parent with them? Every school hosting a swim club must have family changing rooms to accommodate parents who don't teach basic behaviour?
At what age does this behavioural problem disappear and we assume a child can dress themselves? 12? 14? 18?

Or perhaps we should focus on the behaviour. A normal ability 8 yr old can dress themselves, if they can't be trusted to do that the problem is the behaviour.

Individual cubicles are much harder if you are supervising a number of children. Totally impractical for a school.