WIBU - man in women's changing rooms (NOT A TRANS THREAD)

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This occurred earlier today and I have been stewing since. I am aware that it is very trivial.

I took DS (nearly one) to a baby swim class earlier. It wasn't our usual one as that was cancelled due to another baby pooing in the pool and so they offered us this one as a replacement class.

Today, after the class, a man with two little girls (I would say aged 8 and 10-ish - they were both wearing brownie uniforms so - IRC from my own brownie days - I guess that pins it down to upper primary?) WALKED INTO THE WOMEN'S CHANGING ROOM, just as I was finishing dressing and pulling my top over my head. The changing rooms are completely communal with no cubicles (the pool is a school one) and moments earlier I had been topless. I was quite taken aback by his presence.

I said, 'This is the women's!', he said 'I have to come in with them, they can't go in the men's', I said 'I was getting changed!', he said 'can't you go in the loo?'. Now, at this point I fully intended to explain eloquently and convincingly that I could hardly let DS crawl all around the loo floor while I got dressed, but what I actually did was get flustered, point to DS and say 'on the floor!', which I think confused matters as he was indeed, at that point, on the changing room floor and I think the man thought I had just begun saying things at random. So I left with all the dignity I could muster (not much, given that I'd just babbled incoherently at a stranger who had seen me in my bra).

ANYWAY, I was in the right, wasn't I? My sense of when children can do things isn't great, but you can send two brownie-aged ones to get changed, can't you? And if you can't then a man wandering into the women's changing room can't be the answer, can it?!

NB. I am a bit worried that this title will set off a klaxon somewhere so PLEASE don't turn this into a trans thread - it is nothing to do with that

This is why all pools should have family changing rooms.

The fact they don't stops men taking their daughters swimming...

I would have told management. The issue with his DDs is for him to sort out with management.

Also in the interests of fairness: I am dreadful at judging children's ages so they might have been a bit younger than I thought. Definitely both in brownie uniform, though, so that puts a bottom limit on it. No idea if they had any SN, obviously - but I don't feel like he handled it correctly if they did?

You were right (barring the possibility that both girls had additional needs, of course).

In most public pools there would be some sort of accommodation for mixed sex swimmer and carer. It might not apply in the school pool the OP is using.

Most gyms etc have notices which make it clear that adults and children over a certain age - usually 7 or 8 - must use the correct sex changing room (and to ask the staff if there's a problem complying).

In the case of a school there might be no notices for the same reason there's no explicit prohibition from conducting a bullfight - because it goes without saying that men shouldn't be in the girls' changing room.

Even if he hadn't expected to see you in there he should be in a room where older primary aged girls ( presuming his daughters wouldn't be the only ones in there) are getting changed. Report him.

If NT at that age of course they can change themselves. But if the dad does not want that to happen, that he needs to sort out something that does not mean being in a room with women naked or semi naked.

If you see him come in again, scream loudly.

YANBU. If he realises his daughters can’t go in the men’s changing room then why on earth would it be ok for him to go in the women’s . Even if it is something he always does because there is usually no one else in there then surely a normal reaction would have been for him to apologise and make a quick exit!

At 8 and 10, it's difficult. Girls shouldn't be in Men's changing, and Men certainly shouldn't be in women's changing.

The worst way they could dry off with a towel by the pool, and go home with the wet/damp cossie underneath.

Same school pool set up for DD swimming lessons. I send my 8 year old into the Women's on her own and so does her Dad. He then walks through the men's and waits for her to make sure she isn't faffing and starts her lesson.
Swim school would go nuts about this and I had a Dad thrown out of the Women's during a kids lesson as no one else would and the Pre teens were uncomfortable.

And the age that some parents think kids can not manage by themselves in swimming pool changing rooms has risen over the years. I fully expect in 5 years time for some parents on here to be arguing their NT 14 year old could not possibly change by themselves.

Yuck! I would have reported him. What an absolute tool.

Definitely no notice, but the place is very much set up for school use, they just hire it out after school hours for things like swim classes. For that reason I don't really know who 'management' are - I guess the swim school?

So the oaf marched into the womens' changing room after a baby swim class, and expects any women with babies in the class to be hiding in the toilets just in case he wants to come marching in? He must have known there were likely to be women in varying states of nudity in a communal women's changing room!

I'd have done quite a bit more than complain about him, but I appreciate you were taken aback.

I see what you mean by him not necessarily expecting anyone to be in the changing room if he goes weekly and it’s usually empty. But that is very presumptuous and the surprise should have made him even more apologetic.

I know the sort of layout you mean. If the girls have hidden SEN then he ought to at least have them in their cosies under clothes for the start of their lesson. After he would need to stand outside the door and give loud prompts if required.

I have 2 Brownies 7 and 9 who are very capable of sorting themselves for swimming. They both would have been mortified at their dad going in the women’s changing room and DD9 doesn’t change in front of him anymore as she has little boobs now.

If they were brownies they were at least seven. I live in Iceland where children going to swimming lessons are expected to change independently as soon as they are school age (age 6) adults of either sex are not allowed in the changing room unless they are chanting themself.

Presuming that there are only two open changing areas (one for women, one for men) and that the toilets are accessed through said changing areas ... What do people suggest?

I'm not saying that the Dad was right in his decision and he was certainly wrong in his reaction; but I can appreciate that he may not have known the best solution if his girls are unable to change independently. Guide his girls through the men's area, hands over their eyes, to reach the mens' toilets? Put a hand over his own eyes and use the women's area?

YANBU.

Assuming no special needs, 8 and 10 year olds are old enough to be getting changed without their dad. He needs to go to the men’s and them to the women’s.

I would contact the pool prior to the class next week to discuss the situation and avoid him entering the changing rooms again.

Even if one or both of the girls had special needs, a parent / guardian of the opposite sex still cannot enter the female changing rooms. In that case, he should take them to the men’s.

YANBU
He is BVVVVVU. Men have no business comig into the open female changing room.
Most public pools have "under 8s may go in with their parents" rules so I would certainly expect an 8 and 10yo to manage getting changed.
I'd email the pool.

Brownies will be between their 7th and 11th birthdays.

I'm not happy for my 8yo DS to use the men's changing rooms, but it's a large public centre and he has dyspraxia, and we go to pools with some appropriate changing facilites for a mixed sex family with children of different ages. In a smaller set-up like OP's I would be happier to let him manage himself in the communal changing room.

If there is absolutely no alternative provision, then it is better for the child to be in the facility of the supervising parent rather than the adult in the wrong sex facility.

Charlieandthechocolatecake - my dad took me swimming every Sunday morning for years when I was in primary school and I loved it. One of the things I did just with my Dad. Fortunately that pool had family changing when I was little.

Pool OP is describing sounds like my secondary school's pool, just two open changing rooms and no public swimming. From memory people who needed to used an accessible toilet cubicle in the lobby then the kid just walked through the correct changing room to the pool.

Even if they did have additional needs it is not ok for him to be in the women’s changing rooms.

If they were in brownies they would be at least 7, so you’re age guesses won’t be too far off. I’m a Brownie leader and would expect brownies without additional needs to be able to get themselves changed. But I know they very often dawdle or forget stuff.

If he absolutely felt that his daughters couldn’t change alone and couldn’t go in the men’s, he could’ve sent one of them in to the ladies to see if there was anyone else in there first.

Brownies is 7 and up, so that had to be the minimum age if in yellow outfits.

DD used to dress herself after swimming from about 7 up. He should have waited outside and called in through the door occasionally to hurry them up.

I would complain to the management and ask them how they can stop men from entering the ladies changing area.

They should provide family changing though, to get around these problems :(