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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU - What would you have done?

793 replies

TheQueensCorgi · 30/06/2019 20:26

Name changed. Meeting at work (large company, very big on rights for all) and at the end we shook hands with others. I was the only woman in the room and when I got to a man (not white), I put out my hand and he said ‘Sorry I don’t shake hands with women’, and walked off.

I kind of stood there not really knowing what to do next, a few of the men who had overheard still in the room said he never shakes hands for religious reasons.

What would you have done? Would you brush this off? I felt like a second class citizen and quite embarrassed. Should I just be accepting of the fact this was his view or do I have the right to be annoyed ?

OP posts:
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6
Juells · 30/06/2019 22:50

that was to Iwouldtake

AlexaAmbidextra · 30/06/2019 22:51

@AlexaAmbidextra would you get changed in a mixed sex changing room?

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis. What the fuck does that have to do with it? Ridiculous, self-serving analogy.

pallisers · 30/06/2019 22:51

Nobody has a 'right' to touch me. Who i touch is MY decision irrespective of the environment.

so in a work environment it is ok to shake hands with white people but not black people? Really.

You have a right not to touch someone. If you refuse to touch certain people, they have a right to judge you for what you are.

I suggest to you that if you "pick and chose" who you shake hands with you are being extremely impolite and possibly hurtful to those you chose not to touch. If it bothers you that much, simply refuse to shake hands with everyone. After all you touching others isn't a right either.

Original poster
TheQueensCorgi · 30/06/2019 22:52

@SpitefulBreasts I saw an advert today and that was the name of an animated film (looks good think I will take the grandchildren)

OP posts:
Soconfusedandlost · 30/06/2019 22:54

I may be being thick so I apologise in advance.

The gentleman apologised and explained he wouldn't shake your hand as you are a female for religious reasons? At this point I understand why, at that point and with that wording, you would feel shocked and offended.

An early poster explained the reasoning for this is as in some religions (Muslim and Orthodox Jew have been named in the thread) it is seen as sinful to shake the hand of the opposite gender to whom they are not married.

In my eyes, that lessens my shock/offence as had our genders been reversed and the other person being female refused to shake a male's hand as they are not married and this is sinful in their religion. So it is not female orientated, it is an opposing genders thing. (poor wording, my apologies)

You are entitled to your feelings OP and I can understand where you are coming from at the start of the thread. I think we can't have a set rule in place for a situation like this as it is a societal anomaly that we are unaware of. Personally I just hope the gentleman finds a better way to phrase it or handle that situation in the future as he matures to smooth everyone's path

Thatsashame · 30/06/2019 22:56

Op i still stand by my previous posts. But on this occasion he was rude

SpitefulBreasts · 30/06/2019 22:57

It's the cultural norm for men to grope women in the street in India. It's jokingly referred to as 'eve teasing'. I spent ten years in India and experienced it alot, and used to excuse it on the basis that the men were culturally backward and didn't know better. Then, as time rolled on, I got angry. I started reacting to the touches by hitting the perpetrator with a big old umbrella I carried just for that purpose. Fuck 'culture'
@joystir59
Fantastic post, I agree with every word. It's misogyny pure and simple. Just every day common or garden hatred of women.

Juells · 30/06/2019 22:58

The gentleman apologised and explained he wouldn't shake your hand as you are a female for religious reasons? At this point I understand why, at that point and with that wording, you would feel shocked and offended.

No, he said "Sorry, I don't shake hands with women" which is completely different to what you describe. Rude, offensive. If he'd made some other polite nod, bow etc. it would be acceptable.

Original poster
TheQueensCorgi · 30/06/2019 22:58

To advise as this thread has unfolded I dropped a line to one of my colleagues in the meeting, he texted back a few minutes ago and advised he had noticed and was planning to mention next week, the new employee is a Muslim. He said he found it quite embarrassing as an outsider and plans to speak to him and ask him to find another way of explaining as he was taken aback at the exchange but didn’t want to mention at the time, and wait until we were alone to chat through.

OP posts:
maddy68 · 30/06/2019 22:59

He hasn't done anything wrong tbh. He apologised and he said he couldn't shake your hand gif religious reasons. What would you like him to do?

Hecateh · 30/06/2019 23:01

If you had refused to shake hands with him because he is muslim then that would be discrimination. For him to refuse to shake hands with you because you are female is discrimination/

There is the saying 'when in Rome do as the Romans do' and I am pretty sure that is integral to the Koran as well as the bible.

I would definitely complain.

Even Hitler refused all handshakes at the German Olympics rather than shake a white hand but not a black one.

What he has done is not acceptable

Freddiefox · 30/06/2019 23:03

The truth is, you do need to respect his religious beliefs. You don't have to like it (and I'd feel similarly miffed in your shoes) but you do have to accept it in the workplace.

Actually the truth is this is absolute bull shit and is a system used to put woman, and particularly unmarried women in their place, dressed up under the guise of religion.

There is no place for discrimination in the work place.

Why is it always women who have their rights eroded. Always women who have to be treated differently by men.

If this person doesn’t want to shake hands so be it, don’t shake anyone hands. He has the ability to make his need equal for everyone but not he just forces his ideas on women.

I’d make a complaint to HR

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis · 30/06/2019 23:03

Not ridiculous to me @AlexaAmbidextra I genuinely don’t have a problem with treating men and women differently. I don’t want to piss/shit/whatever with men in the next cubicle. I don’t want to change my clothes in front of the opposite sex. I don’t think it’s up to me to say this man has to touch me or touch no one. I don’t think his female equivalent should be made to touch men either. I don’t feel inferior or denegrated in any way by that.

Sounds like the guy was a bit of a prick in lots of ways.

pallisers · 30/06/2019 23:03

The gentleman apologised and explained he wouldn't shake your hand as you are a female for religious reasons? At this point I understand why, at that point and with that wording, you would feel shocked and offended.

That isn't what happened.

This is what happened

He stood up and one by one shook the hands of every man, I was chairing and at other end of table, I went over being polite assuming I would get a hand shake, after his ‘Sorry I don’t shake hands with women’, he turned on his heel and left the room.

Why are we all pretending this is some sort of religious imperative that his soul's salvation depends on. We all know the reality.

wonderingsoul · 30/06/2019 23:04

Hang on ...

So we quite rightly stance it ok to not want to be touched and is wrong to touch with out consent.

But a man doesnt want to touch some one and its sexist?

No, just no.

He doesnt have to shake your hand because you want him To.

He wasnt rude he apologised to you and gave a solid reason. Meaning he doesnt want to offend you and it is t personal.

CoffeeCoffeeTea · 30/06/2019 23:05

Some very interesting comments, shaking hands is cultural and religious.
When I offer my hand it's a sign of peace and friendship

KitKatKit · 30/06/2019 23:05

Sorry I don’t shake hands with women

Let me get this straight. He apologised for his religious beliefs & somehow he's rude? Why should he have to explain his faith to you, a complete stranger? Who are you, the all knowing, all seeing eye?

He apologised. He didnt look you in the eye and blank you before walking off. So yes, YABU.

TheInebriati · 30/06/2019 23:06

This isn't a new problem, its not the first time its been posted on Mumsnet and I'm surprised big companies haven't already taken steps to address it.

cheesemongery · 30/06/2019 23:06

Suck it up. You are Christian as you've said. You have a religion, he has his - it's nothing to do with equal rights.

Just don't offer your hand to anyone unless they offer it to you - you're well within your right to refuse - some people do for fear of germs.

I have no religion. I couldn't care less.

SpitefulBreasts · 30/06/2019 23:08

He wouldn't shake OP's hand for fairytale religious reasons. All Fairytales Religions are intrinsically misogynistic. So basically he's a sexist man.
A better outcome would be that he doesn't shake anybody's hand.

NoSquirrels · 30/06/2019 23:10

That sounds good to me, OP - if he’s new his manager ought to bring it up and advise him to avoid appearing discriminatory. He shouldn’t be compelled to shake hands but he should figure out a better tactic to use professionally that avoids unintentional offence.

UrsulaPandress · 30/06/2019 23:11

So who should offer first?

Or should women just wait?

Ffs.

Hmm
Juells · 30/06/2019 23:12

Wow, some people would just lie down and let anyone walk all over them in the cause of being nice and inclusive.

He wasnt rude he apologised to you and gave a solid reason. Meaning he doesnt want to offend you and it is t personal.

Why do people keep claiming this?

"sorry I don't shake hands with women", turning and walking away isn't giving a solid reason, and actually shows he doesn't give a shit if he's offended you because you're not important, you're a woman.

ReanimatedSGB · 30/06/2019 23:13

Look, fuck his imaginary friend, he needs to learn some manners. People whose silly superstitions require them to discriminate against other people on the grounds of sex have to learn courtesy and coping skills, because other people's feelings matter just as much as theirs. If he had said 'I don't shake hands' that would have been... perhaps a little surprising if you hadn't met someone with that attitude before, but not rude. 'I don't shake hands with women is discriminatory and rude.

NoSquirrels · 30/06/2019 23:13

A lot depends on the delivery of the message and he needs to take responsibility for that. He should practise a line that is friendly e.g.

I hope you’ll understand but I don’t shake hands- it’s been great to meet you/it was a really helpful meeting/I’m looking forward to working with you