AIBU - What would you have done?

[TheQueensCorgi]

Name changed. Meeting at work (large company, very big on rights for all) and at the end we shook hands with others. I was the only woman in the room and when I got to a man (not white), I put out my hand and he said ‘Sorry I don’t shake hands with women’, and walked off.

I kind of stood there not really knowing what to do next, a few of the men who had overheard still in the room said he never shakes hands for religious reasons.

What would you have done? Would you brush this off? I felt like a second class citizen and quite embarrassed. Should I just be accepting of the fact this was his view or do I have the right to be annoyed ?

I lived for a long while in a very Muslim area of London. For the most part it was fine but I could never get used to shopkeepers throwing my change on the counter because they didn’t want to risk physical contact.

I totally understood their reasons and knew it wasn’t anything at all personal, some of them I’d known for years and we’d chat, ask about family etc, but it still made me feel pretty bad inside. So yes OP, I do understand how you felt x

It is simply being polite and inclusive. no it’s a custom that you find polite and inclusive as some cultures do, communal bathing or sauna. You don’t have to get naked with anyone because it’s what they do, and he doesn’t have to be touched by you because it’s what you do. This is not a big deal.

I wonder how many of the people on this thread objecting are the same people who post about the importance of bodily autonomy for children, who shouldn't be made to hug/kiss relations etc. Why is it worse/less acceptable to ask for bodily autonomy for religious reasons than just because? Is it acceptable for a sexual assault survivor to refuse all physical contact with someone of the same sex or ethnicity? Who arbitrates what are and what aren't acceptable expressions of bodily autonomy?

Unless you know the bloke, you have no idea whether it's misogyny or not: as PP have said, it's a respect thing, with the lines drawn in different places than we're used to. If you support separate loos and changing rooms for women then it's logically inconsistent to object to a similar principle in a different cultural norm. Our cultural line is separate facilities: other people's cultural line is single sex education/women being treated by female HCP/not shaking hands with the opposite sex.

Similarly, there are plenty of women who won't shake hands with men for religious reasons.

The bloke OP met was graceless and rude, clearly, and very boorish: and you definitely feel a bit uncomfortable the first time someone refuses an outstretched hand- but there's some serious projecting going on in this thread.

Hi OP, in my culture we shake hands when we meet someone , it's part of the hello/introduction. When I do parent's evening at school , first thing I do is shake hands.
I worked in France for several years and we all shook hands in the morning, it made me feel included and part of the team.
My DD had a University interview last year and was told 5mins before the interview that she should not put her hand out. She was so shocked as this had never been mentioned to her before , at 17 she felt she was 'dirty' because they would not shake her hand. After reading your post I wish we had made a formal complaint to the University, this is misogyny and needs to be stopped.
Thank you for your post

Estuary oh!! I have been to a couple of shops where they could have explained that to me.

This is a case where we are expected to make excuses for male sexism and misogyny on the basis that it's due to religion or culture. I think that's bullshit!!!

@Hefzi you've missed the point, most who have disagreed with the actions have said he should decline all handshakes to not be discriminatory. It's up to him who he's happy to be touched by, but he should not externally express his bodily autonomy by undermining the women he comes across in business. What about her right to be treated as an equal?

itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis

I think the poster is saying it would be polite and inclusive to decline to shake hands with everyone - which I totally agree with.

I don't like handshakes either for all kinds of reasons, but the point is to treat both sexes the same.

FGM is cultural ffs!!!

Because the woman would then be seen to be betraying her religion and or husband by shaking the hand of another.

Personally I'd really rather not touch anyone (germs euwww) so would really like it if we could all adopt a Japanese -style head bow thing with hands together namaste etc.

Issue here is a male/female thing & being treated differently which is not ok in this scenario

It's the cultural norm for men to grope women in the street in India. It's jokingly referred to as 'eve teasing'. I spent ten years in India and experienced it alot, and used to excuse it on the basis that the men were culturally backward and didn't know better. Then, as time rolled on, I got angry. I started reacting to the touches by hitting the perpetrator with a big old umbrella I carried just for that purpose. Fuck 'culture'.

felt it was rude and disrespectful
I think EXPECTING and feeling ENTITLED to a handshake from someone is rude and disrespectful.

Nobody has a 'right' to touch me. Who i touch is MY decision irrespective of the environment.

If your self esteem is so low that you feel like a 'second class citizen' because someone else is exercising the same rights that you have - then you need to get some help.

It sounds like some of you need to educate yourselves and integrate with a more diverse crowd if you're still 'surprised' and 'shocked' when you come across this.

I'm not a man and i'm not religious, yet i don't shake hands with people all the time and i pick and choose when i do.
I have sensory issues as part of my autism so i hate the regular kind of touching that other's consider 'normal' - and nobody needs, or has the right, to know.
Another reason i don't like doing it is because i energetically pick up info on the person sometimes and it isn't nice. I recall shaking hands with someone and getting a flash of him smacking his wife with that hand.

Some people have OCD and hate it - god knows where their hands have been!
Some people may have suffered trauma and as a result don't feel comfortable shaking hands with men/women.

Nobody should be forced to explain why they don't want to be touched and nobody should be forced to do so in public.
Stop being so precious!

The norm is to place your hand on your chest and nod in the direction of the opposite sex and to shake hands with your own. This sounds like a young man who lacks social confidence. Perhaps he did recognise the OP hand on heart and she, not being aware of his mannerisms, missed it and tried to shake his hand? An older man might have handled it better as would someone with parents with more polished manners. He sounds gauche.

He was rude. You didn't know that it was against his religion, so he should've shaken your hand to avoid offending you.

I know we are all meant to be PC these days but these religious beliefs that are disrespectful to women are just ludicrous in my opinion! If it wasn't for us unworthy-of-a-handshake women, none of these men would be here!! We should be fricking adored for the pain and bullshit we go through to put these ungrateful bastards on this earth!

Oooo rant over!! Pregnancy hormones kicked in there.... off to have a

@Bandara
I've known people like you in real life, you've read my posts and decided that I mean something completely different. You've put your own interpretation on my words.
My written words mean exactly what they say. I never say, write or do anything I don't mean. I physically, and literally can't do that.
TheQueensCorgi love the name! You're definitely not unreasonable

@SavingSpaces2019 the fact you and posters like yourself aren't responding to the challenges against the "cultural" argument and the possibility of turning down all handshakes for fairness demonstrates a clear win for those arguing discrimination IMO.

Totally unacceptable. If I refused to shake someone’s hand on the basis that ‘I don’t shake hands with black people’ would that be acceptable? Of course it fucking wouldn’t. Why should misogyny be allowed because of a man’s religious bigotry?

Stop being so precious!

Don't shake hands with everyone else and refuse to shake hands with one person. It's rude and hurtful.

@AlexaAmbidextra would you get changed in a mixed sex changing room?

@avalanching. It's a bit soon but I bloody love you! @mumwon what logic is that? In both of those scenarios the woman is being treated as a sex object, defined by her vagina alone. It makes no odds that one is trying to fuck her and the other is undermining her professionalism.

How is that in any way comparable to being polite to colleagues?

Wow a lot of replies to read, thanks for the views.

To put into context and answer some questions, there were 5 of us in the meeting, (should have been 6 but the other woman who was invited had a sick child), I work in engineering and there are less women than men within the industry.

He was rude within the meeting, but to everyone, obnoxious is the way I would describe, new member to team but acted like he knew it all. I put that down to nerves and wanting to make his opinions known.

He stood up and one by one shook the hands of every man, I was chairing and at other end of table, I went over being polite assuming I would get a hand shake, after his ‘Sorry I don’t shake hands with women’, he turned on his heel and left the room.

I would not have been offended if he had said ‘I’m sorry I cannot shake hands for religious reasons’, if it was a woman and I had the same comment I would have felt similar, but that wasn’t the scenario so hard to say exactly.

I am clearly way past menstruating age (late 50’s) and I’m sure no lust as I could be his grandmother probably.

It’s interesting to hear the views are mainly understanding my point of view, however I appreciate that religion is important.

To add, if he had not shook hands with any of the men either I doubt I would be posting. I probably wouldn’t have noticed.

@TitianaTitsling oh thanks, I thought my posts were going to an unseen vortex 😊