AIBU - What would you have done?

[TheQueensCorgi]

Name changed. Meeting at work (large company, very big on rights for all) and at the end we shook hands with others. I was the only woman in the room and when I got to a man (not white), I put out my hand and he said ‘Sorry I don’t shake hands with women’, and walked off.

I kind of stood there not really knowing what to do next, a few of the men who had overheard still in the room said he never shakes hands for religious reasons.

What would you have done? Would you brush this off? I felt like a second class citizen and quite embarrassed. Should I just be accepting of the fact this was his view or do I have the right to be annoyed ?

This whole thread is just ridiculous and it is unbelievable that some people are actually trying to justify this young man’s attitude towards women.

@butchy but that's hypothetical and a far reach from the actual situation.

Of course it’s hypothetical but I don’t see how it’s remotely a far reach from the actual situation.

It is illegal under the Equalities Act to discriminate against women and yet this man, as a representation of a whole group, is being allowed to insult his female colleagues. Anyone who excuses wholesale misogyny as a cultural or religious belief is betraying hundreds of years of women fighting for rights and freedoms which were strongly resisted. Women dies not to be treated like this.

However, with the PC climate being what it is, we’re you to make a fuss you might well lose your job and even receive a visit from the police.

Next time it happens you could, out of mischief, put your hand in a friendly way on this man’s arm or take his hand to shake it. A small fight back but a gesture nonetheless.

And do not forget which party allowed the progress of women and equality to be set back - and it wasn’t the one in power.

Died not dies.

@Ilovemypantry I’m sorry if I misunderstood you, can you explain?

You can of course treat different sex’s differently and we all do all the time. What you shouldn’t do is act in a prejudicial way based on someone’s sex. To my mind some people on the thread see a man choosing not to shake a woman’s hand as intrinsically rude and unacceptable, while others see it as an extension of normal behaviour. In this instance it sounds like this man was being rude. The issue was his behaviour not his refusal to shake hands. We have no idea why he behaved as he did. OP has described him and people have drawn their conclusions as to his motivation. She seems to have been unaware of his religion to that point. Could she have missed other anti-Jewish/Muslim/whatever comments? Had he tried to indicate his upset in other ways? Has she made any attempt to see what prompted this? The only times I’ve seen people behave like this (ie drawing lines and flaunting religion) is when they have been subjected to multiple jibes and”jokes”.

Next time it happens you could, out of mischief, put your hand in a friendly way on this man’s arm or take his hand to shake it.

Only if you're a twat.

@Isthisafreename that still does not say what you are stating and he is was practicing peacefully, just because she can't be mature and understanding enough to accept that does not mean he should be slated online. You wouldn't expect a convent to allow a male in and you always would not expect an explanation.

he is was practicing peacefully

He wasn't "peaceful" he was very rude in how he handled it. Others have described on this thread how they handled it in a far less offensive way.

You wouldn't expect a convent to allow a male in and you always would not expect an explanation.

And in a country where this practise was as common/well known as convents in the U.K. you also would not expect an explanation. However, someone who does not know about convents would need an explanation .

I’m fairly amazed that a 50 year old in a senior position has never come across this. I guess you don’t know what you don’t know!

OP how are you going to handle this next time?

To the person who suggests forcing contact . I think you probably have some work to to on your thinking on that one. Evolve if you can.

@SoupDragon how about the individual research it instead of expecting an explanation. Why can't they accept practices without having to have an explanation. Religion is b private and the man did nothing wrong whatsoever.

how about the individual research it instead of expecting an explanation

What, in a meeting where someone has just said something rude to her? Seriously?

Why can't they accept practices without having to have an explanation.

In this case the man just said "I don't shake hands with women". That could have been down to religion or just being a sexist wanker. If he had simply said "I'm really sorry but my faith does not allow me to shake hands with women i am not related to" all would have been fine (for most). The OP could then have researched the details if she wanted. Tolerance and understanding goes both ways and this man showed none.

Religion is b private

Then he should not have made a public thing of it. His choice to bring it noticeably into the workplace.

and the man did nothing wrong whatsoever.

Only if you don't think basic manners are important.

In this case the man just said...

Should have been "In this case had the man just said"

Imo either he should not shake hands with anyone or his patter to a woman should be 'I am sorry but my religion does not permit me to shake your hand, however I would like you to know that it was great to meet you etc etc" rather than his dismissive comment

@Fowles94 - that still does not say what you are stating

You have literally stated the op was rude and disrespectful, so yes, it does.

and he is was practicing peacefully

If you think peaceful practice includes rudeness and disrespectful acts, then you have a very different understanding of the word to most.

just because she can't be mature and understanding enough to accept that does not mean he should be slated online.

She hasn't named him or identified him in any way. She asked a question about his behaviour. Any slaying has come from others, although most are only stating he was rude and disrespectful.

You wouldn't expect a convent to allow a male in and you always would not expect an explanation

Where I live, we have plenty of convents. All, bar the enclosed orders, allow men in. The enclosed orders don't allow women in either. However, if you are referring to joining, rather than entering, then you would, I'm sure, get a polite explanation from an order of nuns ( or equally, religious brothers) if you asked to join and you were the wrong sex. The nuns would point you to an order of brothers and the brothers would point you to an order of nuns. If either were rude or disrespectful, then that would be unacceptable too.

It is against his version of religious beliefs (I work in a muslim majority country and all my male colleagues are happy to shake hands or even kiss on the cheek). But he should learn to deal with this much more graciously and without making anyone else (e.g any female he encounters at work) feel bad. It is not just muslim by the way - there are protestant communities with similar beliefs as are many Orthodox jewish. I once had an Orthodox jewish man refuse to sit next to me on a flight.

@Fowles94

This young man was rude. He's a new employee. He initiated the handshaking but when OP naturally put her hand out simply said "sorry, I don't show as keep hands with women". Then turned on his heel and left the room.

No mention of religion at all. No gesture of any sort to the OP, therefore treating differently. It was also significant enough that a male colleague at the meeting noticed and is apparently planning to talk to this man.

He also came across as rude during the meeting.

He disrespected the OP as a woman, as a senior colleague and as the Chair of the meeting.

No one is saying he has to shake a woman's hand, just that he uses some form of gesture in a professional manner.

My auto correct is crap "sorry, I don't shake hands with women"

The stuff you can get away with in the name of religion is insane. Sexism, homophobia, racism...

'it's not me, guv, I'm religious, innit'

Farcical.

I had this many years ago.

I work in recruitment and had just finished interviewing a gentleman and as normal went to shake his hand to thank him for coming in to see me. He said he couldn’t shake my hand either and looked a bit embarrassed about it. Someone else explained after he’d gone that it was due to his religion, but I’d kind of guessed it for myself shortly after.

It did piss me off at the time (and for a while after) because regardless of his reasons, it still made me feel a bit shit and came across as exceptionally rude.

Had he politely explained to you himself that it was a religious reason and he meant no offence, instead of leaving you hanging and letting another colleague explain it to you then it may have been less humiliating, but I think you’d still feel that initial sting for a while!

I’m not sure there’s anything you can really do however. I guess you could speak to someone senior in your company about the shaking hands thing end explain why it may be uncomfortable for some people to do?

I still think the misunderstanding is going both ways. There is an assumption that someone wouldn’t shake hands or touch a woman because they thought they were less worthy of respect than a man. I’m not sure that’s the reasoning but I can understand where the misunderstanding is coming from

m.youtube.com/watch?v=nyxpCanoqXs

It really doesn’t have to be a big deal

Next time it happens you could, out of mischief, put your hand in a friendly way on this man’s arm or take his hand to shake it. A small fight back but a gesture nonetheless.

Wow. Say a man tries to sexually touch a woman, the woman is uncomfortable. So let's FORCE the woman in a passive aggressive way to accept the man's unwanted touch. Does that not sound quite sexual harassment- ish to you? Is this not the same because he's a man and it's his Islamic beliefs that mean he's uncomfortable?

That aside, I am so so so upset by this thread. More disappointed actually. That when able, protected by nicknames and behind a keyboard, people really do feel this way about Islam, and their beliefs and cultural practises.

It's so ignorant it makes my blood boil. Some cultural differences make Islam a slightly variable religion in terms of touching a female you are not married or related to. Some accept it, others don't. Same as some Christians are strict like Catholicism and others less so, like maybe the church of England. He's not touching her because he's "disgusted" by her, because she is "unclean" and other ridiculous assumptions on this thread. Do we also not have rights in this country to not touch or be touched by whomever we want? YOU want a handshake so YOU must get a handshake or god forbid you feel so insecure and precious that you start a islamaphobic post on the subject. If op was a man it would be a different story. For sure.

You're all ignorant and disgusting, those of you saying, essentially, "well he's in OUR country now, he has to abide by OUR thoughts, feelings, culture, actions, religion." Then you go on to exaggerate this and rant about "no wonder this is happening now, no wonder that is happening now." Arrogant. What is actually happening now, on this post, is those of you showing your true colours are practising intolerance, non inclusiveness, impoliteness, and all the lovely things people should have. Leave the guy alone. He doesn't have to fit into our culture to be here. So get over yourself.

Educate yourself the lot of you. Seriously.

Sincerely, a white British atheist.

@LadyInParis - Educate yourself the lot of you.

Most people on this post have no issue with him not wanting to touch a woman. Most posters support his right not to touch a woman. What most people are taking issue with is his rude, disrespectful attitude in avoiding touching a woman. Yes, there are one or two posters who are showing intolerance similar to the piece you quoted. However, they are very much in the minority. So please, save your condemnation for those who deserve it rather than claiming "the lot of us", the majority of whom are condemning rudeness and disrespect, are islamaphobic.