AIBU - What would you have done?

[TheQueensCorgi]

Name changed. Meeting at work (large company, very big on rights for all) and at the end we shook hands with others. I was the only woman in the room and when I got to a man (not white), I put out my hand and he said ‘Sorry I don’t shake hands with women’, and walked off.

I kind of stood there not really knowing what to do next, a few of the men who had overheard still in the room said he never shakes hands for religious reasons.

What would you have done? Would you brush this off? I felt like a second class citizen and quite embarrassed. Should I just be accepting of the fact this was his view or do I have the right to be annoyed ?

I presume the man was of the Muslim faith or perhaps an Orthodox Jew. My husband is a Muslim, brought up in a Muslim culture with religious education at school. These men that say they are not allowed to shake hands with women are taken their religion to an absolute extreme. Moderate Muslims would have absolutely no problem with shaking a women's hand and especially would never offend someone not shaking their hand. He's attended Mosques in England and is constantly amazed at the extremes that 'some' people take their faith to here often based on a misinterpretation of the religion.
There is a great deal in the Quran about the importance of manners. I respect all religions but I have a problem with people of any faith who take it to an extreme in a way that they become judgemental of others and are happy to be rude in the name of religion. I've personally shaken hands with hundreds of Muslim men in the Arab World. I feel this man is making a show of being pious and superior. YANBU.

I would expect to uphold religious values of another person if I went into their church or even socially. Then I would agree that I cannot touch a man because of his religious values - even if I think that this is hokum / sexist balderdash - this is just about ok to me because I have choice as to whether to go into that church or be in these social circles. But if this person wants to be in business / to work with me then equally that person must respect business etiquette - which is to treat men and women equally. If you shake one person's hand you shake everybody's hand. If you cannot do that for religious reasons then you have to decide if you want to be in that business world - it is your choice. I cannot agree that the entire business community has to adopt sexist norms just to please sexist religious precepts . I would be mortified and furious if I were treated like this - I am a women in a business environment - this is as much my world as theirs - why should I feel that I am not permitted to be part of it?

I’d hate to think anyone could presume to know my religion (or lack thereof, I’m not going to say) because of my name. Because that is literally the definition of prejudice.

Lol. Are you really saying it would be prejudicial to consider that Mohammed might be a Muslim?

I'm aware that some Muslim people don't shake hands with members of the opposite sex. If they don't I would expect them to put their hand to their chest and I would do the same. The problem then comes when I'm not aware whether someone is of a religion that excludes opposite sex hand shaking. And I don't really want to know peoples religions, I think it's a private matter.

I didn’t comment back as no doubt I would have been hauled over the coals and told I needed to respect his religion
Exactly this - it’s awful how some religions see women as nothing. We have all of these issues with women’s rights and equal pay when certain groups of people cannot and will not ever see women as equals - very sad that this is seen as acceptable in this day and age.

You are rude and disrespectful if you can't respect another person's religion. He has displayed nothing personal against you.

Why would anyone with an ounce of decency initiate handshaking knowing they would exclude the one woman in the room, thus humiliating her?
Perhaps because they don’t see not shaking hands/touching non family women as humiliating or humbling those women in any way. Perhaps they see it as the natural way to interact with colleagues just as I don’t feel I’m humiliating my colleagues or children by not kissing them on the lips?

Anyone who meets a man called Mohammed, who doesn’t shake their hand, and looks MiddleEastern and doesn’t guess they’re Muslim would be very obtuse surely?

I would think his life would be easier to not shake anyone's hand? I hate hand shakes and only do them if the other person offers. I just prefer not to touch anyone who isn't family!

@bness - I understand that women get discriminated in the workplace but honestly, this isn't it, and if OPs workplace had a muslim woman who respectfully told the men she couldn't shake hands - would it be the same thing?

Yes, this is discrimination. He discriminated against a woman. His motive is irrelevant. Yes, it would be the same if a Muslim woman did the same thing. However, as men generally tend not to suffer the effects of discrimination in the same way, the potential longterm impact would be different.

He could have complied with the requirements of his religion without discrimination. Either refuse to shake hands with everyone or use an alternative symbol of respect to everyone, such as hand to heart or hands together and a nod or slight bow.

Instead, he used a symbol of respect to the men and showed disrespect to the woman in the room.

@Fowles94 - You are rude and disrespectful if you can't respect another person's religion. He has displayed nothing personal against you.

The op has shown no disrespect towards anyone's religion. She has felt discomfort at being treated rudely and disrespectfully by a person who chooses to practise his religion in a disrespectful way (assuming he won't shake women's hands due to religious beliefs). Most people whose religion prohibits physical contact with members of the opposite sex manage their interactions in a polite and respectful manner.

Isthisafreename well said 👍🏻

He was rude within the meeting, but to everyone, obnoxious is the way I would describe, new member to team but acted like he knew it all.

He stood up and one by one shook the hands of every man, I was chairing and at other end of table, I went over being polite assuming I would get a hand shake, after his ‘Sorry I don’t shake hands with women’, he turned on his heel and left the room.

To advise as this thread has unfolded I dropped a line to one of my colleagues in the meeting, he texted back a few minutes ago and advised he had noticed and was planning to mention next week, the new employee is a Muslim. He said he found it quite embarrassing as an outsider and plans to speak to him and ask him to find another way of explaining as he was taken aback at the exchange but didn’t want to mention at the time, and wait until we were alone to chat through.

OP’s own words show that this young man is rude and arrogant. OP didn’t know he was Muslim to begin with, so I’m not surprised she put her hand out after he had initiated the handshaking. That a male member of the meeting is planning to talk to him shows how abrupt his refusal to shake hands and leaving the room must have been for it to have been noticed. He showed disrespect to a senior colleague who was chairing the meeting, it’s irrelevant that she was female. He could very easily have shown another gesture of respect, chatted for a moment. He didn’t have to touch the OP, I agree, but he should have shown some respect to a senior colleague.

Why does everyone have to respect people's religious rights? They shouldn't have any rights at all.

When I worked in retail many moons ago we had an Asian cashier (male) he would not touch the hands of any woman who came to his till, He asked them to put the cash down on the till and he would then pick it up, I asked one of the female staff also Asian why he wouldn't touch any woman's hands but he would a mans , she explained that Muslim men are forbidden to touch any women in case they're on their period it's against their religion, I'm assuming that's the same reason he wouldn't touch your hand o p, it may be worth Googling for more information but that's what I was told..

That a woman may be menstruating as the reason, is even more abhorrent

I wouldn’t worry about it. It’s taken you by surprise but his belief is to not touch another woman’s hand (another mans wife) then that’s that. Maybe if you’d known in advance it wouldn’t have been so bad. It’s archaic really but I wouldn’t take offence it’s pretty pointless

he was rude , he should have explained why he could not shake hands with you and left other people in the room to apologise for him religion is one thing but manners are manners , if you ever have a meeting with him again you should just say "Not shaking hands with you , you are the rude arsehole " and see how he likes it

@Isthisafreename no she has shown disrespect to him in her comments, surely any adult can understand others religion and not have to make comment on it. Plus he has not disrespected anyone at all.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-44304012
It seems in some parts of the world that's the case, I agree its totally abhorrent very backward thinking in this day and age , Its seen as unclean , Men! What do they know, Religion or not oh hum..

@Fowles94 - no she has shown disrespect to him in her comments

Can you point out where she has disrespected his religion? The op,I read was commenting on the fact that he started the handshakes but then refused her hand, simply stating that he did not shake women's hands. There was no mention of religion in the post. She was commenting on his rudeness and discriminatory behaviour. As I stated previously, most manage to practise their religion in a manner that is not rude, disrespectful or discriminatory. He didn't. That is what is being criticised, not the fact that he does not wish to touch a woman.

this is not a case of a man not treating women equally. In the strictest of religions contact between men and women is forbidden. Had the colleague been a woman she would not have shook hands with the men.
Generally speaking people are very respectful about this and explain it but also will make other gestures to help avoid the embarrassment if you pick up on the social cues such as putting their right hand to their chest with a slight bow.
It’s just a different way of greeting.