AIBU - What would you have done?

[TheQueensCorgi]

Name changed. Meeting at work (large company, very big on rights for all) and at the end we shook hands with others. I was the only woman in the room and when I got to a man (not white), I put out my hand and he said ‘Sorry I don’t shake hands with women’, and walked off.

I kind of stood there not really knowing what to do next, a few of the men who had overheard still in the room said he never shakes hands for religious reasons.

What would you have done? Would you brush this off? I felt like a second class citizen and quite embarrassed. Should I just be accepting of the fact this was his view or do I have the right to be annoyed ?

You are being unreasonable. Everyone is assuming it’s about equality. It isn’t. A woman also wouldn’t have wanted to shake hands with a man.

YANBU. The religious views AU.

Don't have time now to read tft but What if he couldn't shake hands with gay people due to his religious beliefs? Or (white /black /Irish) people? Would that make it OK? Nope... So why is it OK to not shake hands with women? Misogyny imo

I don't know any religions that have rules about shaking hands with the Irish!

This is where context becomes important. At its deepest level, it is misogyny. Most religions do make a distinction at some level between men and women, whether it is about women priests, etc.

However, in this case, other than the lack of handshake, it seems no deeper discrimination has occurred.

I've occasionally had to say 'I'm really sorry due to my faith I don't shake hands with men, but I am really pleased to meet you' and give a big smile.

I think that, had he said something like would be no offence taken. Someone said earlier that it's not about the handshake, it's about how he handled it and his attitude.

had he said something like would be no offence taken

had he said something like that there would be no offence taken

I haven't read all the comments, but: I am a working Muslim woman and I have done this allllll the time. OP I'm sorry you felt singled out and I can completely understand. I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and think okay as a Muslim woman if someone singled me out and treated me differently than everyone else I'd be horrified (and it has happened!)

However this isn't like that - It's not looking down or discriminating against anyone at all. This is more of a man not being able to touch a woman - or a woman not being allowed to touch a man. I do it all the time - I just put my hand on my chest and apologise and say, I'm really sorry, I can't shake hands. Nobody has ever been upset (that I know of), to the contrary they say "Oh yes, of course". I look visibly Muslim. I remember in my interview the interviewers didn't shake my hands and I felt quite respected tbh that they knew and respected that I wouldn't shake. It's not about discrimination at all - just a rule that people of opposite gender don't touch - and I'm really surprised to read all the comments with people saying he shouldn't work if he feels like this.. why does performance have anything to do with it? I run an interfaith organisation for muslim and jewish women (and quite orthodox) so we share a lot of practice and I wouldn't dream that any of those are discriminatory.

I understand that women get discriminated in the workplace but honestly, this isn't it, and if OPs workplace had a muslim woman who respectfully told the men she couldn't shake hands - would it be the same thing?

@TwinMummy1510 yup to all that you said. I have felt a bit cringey saying no to a man - believe me, it's equally as discomforting to me to say no and I get red and feel embarrassed at singling myself out and being weird but that's just what I need to do! It does not affect my performance at all more than other peoples performances get affected by all the other stuff in our lives....

I think that, had he said something like would be no offence taken. Someone said earlier that it's not about the handshake, it's about how he handled it and his attitude.

But if if he had been offered a bacon butty and refused, would a further explanation be needed than "sorry, I don't eat pork"? In itself, it was a fairly stand alone explanation.

This situation made me feel really angry. It is discriminatory however you dress it up including saying a religious belief. If this is in the UK and I think you said in a large company and if the man works for the same company then I would be making a complaint to HR and suggesting that they implement a new company policy whereby handshaking should not take place. Also HR need to have a word with this Individual. YANBU.

He needs to use the same rules for men and women. So if he won’t shake your hand, he should decline all hand shakes.

If he won’t have lunch with a woman alone, he should decline all 2 person lunches. If he won’t have a meeting with a woman alone, he should decline all 2 person meetings.

Sorry for typos. No glasses on.

Also HR need to have a word with this Individual.

And what would you expect HR to say?

He needs to use the same rules for men and women.

I think that's a really unsophisticated understanding of equality.

He has a right to his beliefs whether we agree with them or not
No workplace or HR would suggest otherwise

It always amazes me how religious people find so much offensive but how they think it's okay and acceptable to offend.

He doesn’t need to apologise (starting a sentence with sorry implies he’s done/doing something wrong), and he did explain. You’re asking him to observe your rights as a woman to be treated equally whilst not observing his religious rights. He’s done nothing wrong.

Actually, it is more like him saying he had ordered bacon butties for the whole meeting as a treat. Then when they arrive and OP offers him one, to say “I don’t eat pork”

That's not remotely perverse - hi I've bought cake for the team but I won't have one myself as I'm on a diet.

Stating you do not shake hands with women, with no explanation

And from what was posted, he did explain. It was subsequently explained further by a colleague.

HR would be interested in that because it shows deliberate intent to humiliate and offend in front of colleagues

I'm sorry but I can't agree with that.

He never said it was for religious reasons

It was presumably implied and subsequently confirmed.

It is the terseness, the lack of explanation, unlike your scenario where you state “I’m on a diet”

What about I don't eat meat? Does every vegetarian need to explain their reasons for being a vegetarian, or does I don't eat meat suffice?

We're both assuming a lot, but I am assuming that there was probably some context - the man was not white, maybe his religion could be implied through his name, etc.