AIBU - What would you have done?

[TheQueensCorgi]

Name changed. Meeting at work (large company, very big on rights for all) and at the end we shook hands with others. I was the only woman in the room and when I got to a man (not white), I put out my hand and he said ‘Sorry I don’t shake hands with women’, and walked off.

I kind of stood there not really knowing what to do next, a few of the men who had overheard still in the room said he never shakes hands for religious reasons.

What would you have done? Would you brush this off? I felt like a second class citizen and quite embarrassed. Should I just be accepting of the fact this was his view or do I have the right to be annoyed ?

You think a man who deliberately starts handshaking, in the full knowledge he will exclude one person in the room, and not even give her the courtesy of an explanation or an alternative gesture deserving of tolerance, rather than needing a lesson in manners?

He did give an explanation of sorts (I assume the context was implied). It’s ok to be offended but I think his rights do trump those of the OP

Or she will get very far and build up a fantastic team and create a great environment to work in.

I’ve managed to do that without refusing to employ people who don’t look at me in an interview.

I think his rights do trump those of the OP

You think she has a right to insist everyone shakes her hand?

I would have been really angry. There are some common basic rules about how to behave at work and treating men and women differently is discrimination. If your religion prevents you from conforming to basic rules of social interaction you should stay out the workplace, or work in a religious capacity. I would definitely be going to HR to discuss this and find out what you can do. If this guy became a manager could be be trusted to treat women fairly? I really doubt it.

Why do his rights trump hers?

Because of the scale of the offense. I’m assuming for the sake of argument that the OP was otherwise not discriminated against and professionally she could do her work. The offense of not having your hand shaken is relatively less than if the deeply held religious beliefs were offended.

I would not say the same thing is the man had said he refused to work with a woman

Not RTFT as the pages won't load for me, so apologies if I'm repeating what's been said.

You've got the right to feel awkward and a bit embarrassed, and even a bit annoyed. It's not the norm in our society so you probably couldn't have foreseen that situation and it caught you on the hop. Maybe if you'd known in advance you'd feel a bit differently about it all as you'd have not offered your hand.

However, at the same time it's unreasonable to expect him to break his religious beliefs just to assuage your hurt feelings. It's quite a big thing in some cultures and a strict belief. The reverse is also true, some women will refuse to touch men for religious reasons.

Being against discrimination means treating people fairly, and with respect, ensuring that you're not giving one individual an advantage or preferential treatment. This doesn't mean you have to treat everyone the same. It's a misconception that's often overlooked - equally respectful, equally advantageous yes, but not necessarily the same. His decision not to shake women's hands doesn't leave you with any disadvantage that I can discern, nor have you been treated worse or with a lack of professional respect. Providing he treats you as a peer in terms of work, I don't think this is a matter of discrimination. Maybe he could have handled it a little better, but that's just personality or manners, not anything more.

I do get why you're upset, I would have died a little inside. But at the same time, it's just a cultural/religious difference and nothing that's unfair or wrong.

Are you? - suggesting we bow to people!

It's common practice in some societies and much healthier and respectful.
Or, as I also suggested, just use words. Yes, for real.
Touching should not be mandatory.

If a man cant treat women equally why does any company employ him ?

And women belonging to some religions would refuse to shake a male's hand so should companies also refuse to employ them too?

This happened to us at a parent's evening once - my son's maths teacher shook my hand but said to my husband that she doesn't shake hands with men. Should the school have refused to enjoy her?

@Yabbers

I think his rights do trump those of the OP

"You think she has a right to insist everyone shakes her hand?"

Think...

@AtmosClock - I think this is a question of whose rights trump whose. I don’t think your right to get a handshake (but presumably to be treated equally in every other respect) trumps his right to follow his religious practice. Therefore I think you should be tolerant

This has nothing to do with a handshake per se. He treated the op rudely and disrespectfully. That is the issue.

He used the handshake as a symbol of respect for the men. He showed no equivalent symbol of respect to the op. That is discriminatory. It may not have had an immediate or substantial impact on the op's position. However, most discriminatory acts don't. It is the cumulative effect of minor acts that results in women's careers requiring harder work than men's. We end up needing to prove ourselves over and above our male counterparts in order to get on. And before anyone jumps on me and claims they got on without any problems, yes, some women do. However, there is a proven gender pay gap that suggests otherwise.

I don't think anyone on this thread, bar one or two people, is suggesting he needs to touch anyone he doesn't want to touch. However, that does not mean that he can actively discriminate against a woman in the way he did.

Rise above it.!!
When in any company and you meet people of a different culture, respect that culture.!
I would say nothing.!

YANBU This happened to me, on my first day in a new project. I was mortified and apologised for extending my hand, to which my boss (later) said ‘you shouldn’t apologise’ yet no one did anything. I have regretted ever since, not going to HR to complain. I like to think I am a liberal, yet this to me was a case of: discriminate against someone for their religion or their gender. Which is right?

I once had a meeting with a client in a café. I knew he was Muslim and didn't expect to shake hands with him, but at the end of the meeting he said "I am not supposed to shake hands with women, or look them in the eye," and he looked me in the eye and stuck his hand out

I don't know. It's a crap rule, and IMO really awful to instil that guilt into people that if they find someone apart from their DW/DH attractive that they'll go to hell, or whatever. My mum was a devout Christian and she once opined that if I saw a bloke from my office in the street that I shouldn't speak to him, because "his wife might not like it" . Since when does saying "Alright, George?" equate to "George, please rip my knickers off right now." ?

I would respect his wishes and not worry about it .

I wouldn't have felt offended if he had been the one to explain why but he didnt it was someone else and to me sometimes that feels like they are just coming up with an excuse. If for religious reasons maybe he shouldn't shake anyones hand

I'd respect it, it's happened to me and his own boundaries are important. It didn't bother me particularly, although he did explain it to me beforehand. Why push his boundaries if he doesn't want to?

Don't have time now to read tft but What if he couldn't shake hands with gay people due to his religious beliefs? Or (white /black /Irish) people? Would that make it OK? Nope... So why is it OK to not shake hands with women? Misogyny imo

reytmardy
I would respect his wishes and not worry about it .

Weird the way respect only runs one way, when it comes to women.

He gave no context

It’s likely there was more context than could be expressed in the OP