AIBU - What would you have done?

[TheQueensCorgi]

Name changed. Meeting at work (large company, very big on rights for all) and at the end we shook hands with others. I was the only woman in the room and when I got to a man (not white), I put out my hand and he said ‘Sorry I don’t shake hands with women’, and walked off.

I kind of stood there not really knowing what to do next, a few of the men who had overheard still in the room said he never shakes hands for religious reasons.

What would you have done? Would you brush this off? I felt like a second class citizen and quite embarrassed. Should I just be accepting of the fact this was his view or do I have the right to be annoyed ?

IME the refusal to shake a woman's hand is nothing to do with lack of respect or consideration but actually exactly the opposite, whether you agree with/understand it or not.

The avoidance of any touch between unrelated males and females is considered to preserve the sanctity of marriage and the respect of the other's personal space.

It is considered that any touch could potentially cross a line between professional and intimate and a man in that culture will do whatever he can to protect or preserve the line between you that shouldn't be crossed.

In this case he could perhaps have been less abrupt about it but maybe he doesn't come across the situation often and is guilty only of not handling it perfectly, as we all are at times.

Personally I think you are being a bit precious. I couldn’t care less if a man didn’t shake my hand after a meeting for religious beliefs.. I’m really not that sensitive that I would feel like a lower class citizen and to think that someone shouldn’t be in a job around a few women because he can’t shake a women’s hand is just silly... how much does it actually impact the work that he was employed to do. Just live and let live.

I agree he probably just didn't know how to handle it. I do think something needs to be said because most people will see it as awful and it's going to have negative consequences for his career.

The man chooses to follow a set of beliefs that have some social constrictions. He has to learn to manage them in a professional way. He doesn't want to shake a woman's hand because of his religion. If a woman (who doesn't have a choice about being female) disgrees with the man's choices and beliefs then she can refuse to shake his hand because of his religion too then, and that'd be ok would it, in a professional environment?

MissPolly, why are you so ranty? Nobody is suggesting you have to cuddle, kiss or touch somebody if you dont want to. Nobody is suggesting that at all. You are really going over the top here.
In the UK, a handshake is seen as a friendly, courteous, respectful gesture. Because the OP is a female, this man chose not to show her friendliness, courtesy or respect. If he wished to be friendly, courteous and respectful there are a number of culturally appropriate gestures he could have offered to demonstrate this that don't involve touching. Instead, he chose to single the OP out because she is a woman, something over which she has no control. He chose to show the only woman in the room no respectful gesture. And you can't see why that would come across as inappropriate in this business environment?

Why would you even want physical contact that you know the other person is deeply uncomfortable with?

I'm completely against religious beliefs taking precedence over other people's needs and I think it's appalling that pharmacists can refuse to administer the morning after pill (which is very time sensitive) because of their personal beliefs for example.

But demanding that someone go against their deeply held religious beliefs just to touch you and give you the satisfaction of knowing that they've assimilated into your culture is a bit much.

His line manager should be explaining to him that he shakes hands with all or none. At 22 he is new to the work place in general and is new to this company in particular. His line manager should be mentoring on the company culture.

I have a report with ASD. From time to time I need to mention to him behaviours which not acceptable in the work place. I do it in a friendly way but explain that these are non negotiable as they impact on how he is perceived by the wider office. At the same time I am also prepared to defend him to anyone who criticises him without justification simply for being different.

It sounds like this person the OP had to deal with could do with the same.

I agree that he needs to explain that it's against his religion and work on an alternative friendly gesture though.

From time to time I need to mention to him behaviours which not acceptable in the work place. I do it in a friendly way but explain that these are non negotiable
What sorts of things? That sound open to abuse, what safeguards are in place?

OP, next time tell him you are currently identifying as a man. He should be more than happy to shake hands with you

But demanding that someone go against their deeply held religious beliefs just to touch you and give you the satisfaction of knowing that they've assimilated into your culture is a bit much.

No, someone is expected to be polite and professional. He either shakes hands with everyone, no-one, or finds a polite gesture that indicates his respect for a colleague. Other people manage it.

What sorts of things? That sound open to abuse, what safeguards are in place?

Do you think that he shouldn't be given any advice, and have complaints to HR stack up against him instead?

Actually, as a PP said, this man should be given at least an informal verbal warning. And if he doesn't respond well to it, maybe a note on file.
Because the issue is not specifically about shaking hands, it's about this man giving the impression that he considers women dirty/inferior/unacceptable and, unless he's in an all-male environment, he needs to be able to conceal his misogyny or grow out of it, because someone who displays open bigotry for superstitious reasons is unable to do their job properly. They can't be trusted to work with members of the group they are prejudiced against, because those people have the right not to work with someone who thinks they are inferior and shows it.

No, someone is expected to be polite and professional. He either shakes hands with everyone, no-one, or finds a polite gesture that indicates his respect for a colleague. Other people manage it.

I agree that he didn't handle it in the most professional way. He should have been more polite and he definitely should have offered some sort of gesture. But I don't agree that he shouldn't shake anyone's hand at all because some people choose to be offended by a pretty harmless part of his religion. I'm as atheist as they come and I'd even go as far as calling myself an anti-theist but I can't find it in me to get worked up about this.

It may seem like a small thing and something that can be brushed off. But it’s part of a bigger picture. Just as telling a sexist joke is a (relatively) small thing. Except in this instance it is religious bigotry. But it’s still against women and we should still call it out.

I don't shake men's hand because of my religious beliefs. I understand it is awkward for men so now I try not to shake hands with anyone. If somebody tries to shake my hand then I politely tell them with a smile that sorry I don't shake men's hands. I try to be as gentle as possible as I understand it must be embarrassing for them to be put in this position and I am equally embarrassed to be in that position. I don't like shaking strangers hands anyway and would really like if people just dropped it. It's even more irritating when people then try to go oh let's hi-five . I greet everyone with hand on my heart and a nod.

I wear a hijab so that gives it away that I am a muslim and I understand that it's hard to tell a muslim man apart from others.

I have seen Muslim men shaking women's hands when they offer it as they don't want to put them in a difficult position but they don't initiate it. It also depends how he dealt with the situation. if he was polite then YBU but if he was abrupt and didn't give any explanation then YNBU. It's only personal if you take it personally.

OP, did he say "sorry I don't shake hands with women" or did he say "sorry I don't shake hands with women due to religious reasons"?

Why on Earth are people saying he didn't shake her hand because he thinks females are inferior??! It's simply because she's of the opposite sex.

THIS

And why the assumption that he was Muslim? I apologise if I missed the part where the faith was mentioned. Some orthodox Jews have similar restrictions.

MissPolly

Two completely different things.

bananasaidso
I would really like it if people just dropped it
This!

You do know that it is customary in this country to shake someone’s hand when offered? Why on earth should people “just drop it” because a minority of people find it offensive for whatever reason?

My DD had a University interview last year and was told 5mins before the interview that she should not put her hand out. She was so shocked as this had never been mentioned to her before , at 17 she felt she was 'dirty' because they would not shake her hand. After reading your post I wish we had made a formal complaint to the University, this is misogyny and needs to be stopped.

It is only misogyny if they only say this to the female candidates.

If they say it to the male candidates, too, then it is just a way of maintaining an appropriate professional distance between interviewer and interviewee.

RosaWaiting
No, I am not ok if he shakes hands with no one. He should shake hands with EVERYONE, and that of course includes women. It is our culture and custom in this country to do so and if you want to live and work here, you integrate into society, especially in the work place.

If you had refused to shake hands with him because he is muslim then that would be discrimination. For him to refuse to shake hands with you because you are female is discrimination

I hadn't thought of this - it is a very good point.

I don’t shake hands with men and funnily enough I have never been accused of being sexist, discriminatory or treating men as unequal. Men and women are different, I think it’s fine to request a HCP from your own sex, or to refuse physical contact with people from the other sex. As long as it is done in a polite and respectful manner, obviously. It has nothing to do with seeing women as lesser beings or«dirty», just avoiding contact with women that are not relatives.

Just out of curiosity, if you refuse to shake someone’s hand because they are gay and your religion doesn’t accept homosexuality is that ok?

If not I don’t see any difference. why would it be ok to be prejudiced on grounds of gender if not ok for other things. Religions have all kinds of rules and exclusions but you still have to live by the general rule surely.

It’s to do with the sexual connotations and also respect

It has its origins in the idea that a woman is the property of a man.

Yes, it is technically about 'respect' but it is the colleague showing 'respect' to whatever man happens to 'own' OP at that point (be it her father or her husband if she is married), not to OP herself.

Awful, misogynist behaviour. I'd definitely be raising a grievance.