What IS going on with this man? Father of DD's friend....

[HennyPennyHorror]

DD's just turned 11 and her best friend...we will call Anne. Anne's parents split up 4 years ago and so I have dealings with both Anne's Mum and less so, her Dad.

Anne lives full time with Mum but Dad seems to want more access and often turns up as DD and Anne are walking home from school....he'll ask Anne if she wants to go out for tea with him...sometimes just him and other times with his newish girlfriend and him.

Anne almost always says no.

Anne would rather come here to ours and play for an hour or two before walking home to her Mums.

Whenever Anne stays over with us at weekends, her Dad will phone me and ask "I wondered if Anne would like to come for a picnic/lunch/to the climbing wall...whatever....he offers for my DD to go too.

Anne always says no. I have taken to handing my phone to Anne and letting her do the telling.

She has never once agreed to his suggestions.

Why does he try to "muscle in" on Anne and DD's plans and playdates? When DD and Anne have a friday night sleepover for example, they will usually have made little plans for the next day...just simple things "We're going to the library and then for a milkshake at the general store" (we live in Oz)

But he always tries to sort of tempt Anne away. It's her Dad...I get that...but why hasn't he got proper access arrangement in place with Anne's Mother?

Anne's Mother is not very communicative. All I know from Anne is that "Dad once broke our mailbox and my big sister didn't speak to him for a year"

He seems polite...but might be abusive? If so, I wish Anne's Mum would tell me so I can give him short shrift.

Justilou the non verbals....and her not doing female interaction...could that be a symptom of abuse past or present?

I don't understand why you've never discussed this with Anne's mum?
You can easily discuss via text or email if she makes it difficult to verbally discuss the issue.
Why are you so passive?

He obviously wants more access to his DD and is trying to see her/keep in contact.
He's doing it this way because it seems like he doesn't have any other choice.

Anne's mum could have alienated her DD from her father, she could be emotionally manipulating her, she could be refusing to facilitate contact with her dad.
WHATEVER is going on - it should not be projected onto you. The mother should be dealing with this.

I don't think he's ever called when she's not here which would suggest her Mum tells him if he calls her.....I think Anne's Mum gave him our address but this is a small, rural town in Australia....everyone knows everyone...could have been anyone!
Stop gaslighting yourself - the mother gave him your address, and unless he's got a tracker on his DD then the mother is telling him whenever Anne is at yours.
Why is she doing this if she doesn't want to facilitate contact?
Why is she passive aggressively trying to make you facilitate contact?

The most concerning thing here is that you never gave Anne's mum permission to tell the Dad any of that information, yet she still does.
Your husband and your dog have picked up on weird vibes from the father - and i trust a dogs instinct over a humans any day.
There is obvious something behind Anne's refusal to see/speak to her dad and the rest of her family are not comfortable with him either - yet they keep directing him towards you!
He could be abusive, a paedophile, an axe murderer......

Anne's mum is taking the piss and putting your family in danger.

She's also cunning enough to know how to avoid being questioned/pulled up over her antics.
She has zero respect for you and thinks she can divert the shit in her life for you to deal with -without even having the decency to ask/discuss it with you first.

Hard to pin down? Go to her bloody house, OP. How weird.

no-one has said when the parents separated, doesnt seem to be recent.

From the first post:

DD's just turned 11 and her best friend...we will call Anne. Anne's parents split up 4 years ago ...

I would just opt out entirely from dealings with the man. Ignore, ignore, ignore.

@HennyPennyHorror - they can be. Absolutely. Of course, it may just be her, but I suspect when you look at the big picture, something is really not right with this family set up. It’s all reading wrong, and I’m most concerned with HIS behaviour.
Also, I have concerns about him having your number without your permission. That’s just rude. Nobody does that without asking. Just saying.....

Just out of interest, are you friends with any of the local cops? Could you bring this up in a hypothetical manner?

justilou - I agree with most of what you're saying but the OP may have given Dad her number - it does say in the first post that she has dealings with the Dad, so it's not necessarily a breach of trust there.

The offhand way in which the mother is leaving it all up to Anne to deal with though - that's not right. And whether that is down to her lack of parenting, or fear of the father, we again won't know.

But I do agree as well that the OP could have another go at, at the very least, conveying her discomfort with the whole situation, whether or not Anne's mother opens up about why it's like this.

I think SavingSpaces has said a lot of things, that make sense. Either that or the mum is too afraid not to tell him your contact details, address or where Anne is.

I really do think you should at the very least tell the school what is going on. This is a very strange set up and I cannot understand who is actually safeguarding Anne. You are assuming it is the mother however you don’t actually know.

Perhaps Anne is old enough to decide for herself whether or not she sees her father. But she’s not old enough to be dealing with coercion, manipulation and abuse.... from at least one parent.

The mother is letting the daughter decide if she wants contact.
She is only 11 but confident enough in her relationship with her dad to say (when it suits her) that she doesn't want to see him.
If he phones your house let him speak to his daughter as he's trying to maintain contact.
Do not get any more involved than that.

Thank you everyone for all your help and advice. DH and I have decided that we won't be answering any calls from him at all. We're also altering the gate so he can't just walk in.

And if he calls, we will ignore him.

Excellent post @SavingSpaces2019

You can't know the real truth, can you, and it's hard for you to get involved. If you talk to Anne about it, it might come back at you from her mother.

Maybe Anne is being poisoned against her father, and the father keeps trying. How does he "know" she is with you when he rings?

It's well know that both domestic violence is more common/more severe and also that the courts favour 50/50 much more, regardless of circumstances, fathers rights is a big thing down under (and not in a good way).

I bet the mother and kids are shit scared of him - but treading a very fine line to attempt to keep from being forced to see him.

He wants them all to know that he can get to them anywhere, at any time.

Block him and don't permit his interference in these playdates.

*DV more common down under

Ignoring him is just going to bring him to your door.
Next time he rings, don't answer and then message what a pp said:

Hi X, I'm not sure what the arrangements are with your dd and access, but I need to ask you to stop calling/texting when you dd is at mine. I really feel it more appropriate if you deal directly with her mum - it puts me in an awkward position and the girls just like to get on playing. I'm sure you understand, thanks"

You owe this prick nothing so just don't take his calls. If he approaches you face to face, say You'll have to discuss it with Anne's mother and refuse to engage any further.

Make it clear, once and for all, to Ann's DF that you will not be involved in arranging access for Ann. When she is visiting you it is to see your DD, not him.

If he wants to see her, it organises it with the mother - end of!

Let the mother know too, for good measure.

Id say to the child that if there is anything she needs to talk about regarding her dad, then youre happy to listen

I also think that this man is likely to be very abusive, and that the mother's passivity is a combination of fear and cunning - the father is unlikely to become dangerous in the presence of witnesses (you and your family) but, like a PP has said, the mother is trying to avoid her DC being forced to spend time with him. So just ignore his calls and don't let him in.

I'm not sure if anyone else has already suggested it, but have you thought about mentioning it to the school? They may be aware of circumstances that you aren't.

If he is trying to pick her up as she walks home from school or when she gets to your house, then why isn't he waiting outside the school and collecting her from there? It all sounds really dodgy to me.

I still feel....maybe because I'm a wimp...that my course of action from now on will be to simply ignore his calls

That has to be better than expecting an 11 year old to deal with things you are too afraid to do.

It could be that the child is being alienated from the father by her mother, and he just wants to spend some time with his daughter. Or not, but too quick to judge the dad here, I think.

It could be that the child is being alienated from the father by her mother, and he just wants to spend some time with his daughter. Or not, but too quick to judge the dad here, I think.

Really? Weird and underhand way to go about it. Methinks you're projecting here.

He might not be trying to wear her down. He might be a loving father who doesn't want to give up on seeing his child.

It could be this that or the other. Speculation is not appropriate, neither is his behaviour. Block him, if he approaches you ask him not to contact you. Contact the school.