What IS going on with this man? Father of DD's friend....

[HennyPennyHorror]

DD's just turned 11 and her best friend...we will call Anne. Anne's parents split up 4 years ago and so I have dealings with both Anne's Mum and less so, her Dad.

Anne lives full time with Mum but Dad seems to want more access and often turns up as DD and Anne are walking home from school....he'll ask Anne if she wants to go out for tea with him...sometimes just him and other times with his newish girlfriend and him.

Anne almost always says no.

Anne would rather come here to ours and play for an hour or two before walking home to her Mums.

Whenever Anne stays over with us at weekends, her Dad will phone me and ask "I wondered if Anne would like to come for a picnic/lunch/to the climbing wall...whatever....he offers for my DD to go too.

Anne always says no. I have taken to handing my phone to Anne and letting her do the telling.

She has never once agreed to his suggestions.

Why does he try to "muscle in" on Anne and DD's plans and playdates? When DD and Anne have a friday night sleepover for example, they will usually have made little plans for the next day...just simple things "We're going to the library and then for a milkshake at the general store" (we live in Oz)

But he always tries to sort of tempt Anne away. It's her Dad...I get that...but why hasn't he got proper access arrangement in place with Anne's Mother?

Anne's Mother is not very communicative. All I know from Anne is that "Dad once broke our mailbox and my big sister didn't speak to him for a year"

He seems polite...but might be abusive? If so, I wish Anne's Mum would tell me so I can give him short shrift.

Of course we do

Why don't you just stop answering his calls when Anne is with you?! You've made arrangements with Anne on the basis that she lives with mum and it's mum who is expecting her home. If he wants to sort out his access arrangements he can do it through the usual channels, not by harassing you

^^ This.

When people suddenly want difference arrangements I insist on talking with the person - usually mother - I made arrangements with before I allow anything else.

So I don't think the mother is behaving well here - as I'd expect them to take the call every time and even if they wanted the child to decide I'd expect their input every time to say that.

Though by 12 - near end of year at secondary I've been happy if the kids are clear what the expectations are - if turn up to our house and leave by certain time under their own steam as long as it’s light – after dark prefer to walk them back or get them to get picked up.

I would not be happy someone letting themselves on to my property – though I would probably blame the dog being usually free to roam.

I'd avoid calls and think about havinga word with the school.

I certainly wouldn't be keen on him approaching them on way home from school.

I've known separated parents where the woman does everything possible to turn the children against their father. I would never assume you know what is going on in someone else's relationship. All you KNOW is that he is desperate to see his daughter and she would rather be with her friend.

I wouldnt answer the phone, if he turned up I'd explain I couldnt let the child go with him without permission from the mother - but I'd stay out of the problem as far as possible and I wouldnt make assumptions.

@alreadytaken We also know that he broke the mailbox and older sister would not talk to him for a year.
And that he behaves inappropriately. Walking on to OPs property and phoning every time his DD is visiting a friend.

For a start, if Anne's mum says "It's up to Anne", and Anne is happy to talk to her dad, then do not tell her dad when he calls "They've gone for a walk" or block his number or ignore his calls, as some PPs have suggested. It's not your job to police their relationship. If she is happy to talk to him, even if only to say "no", when at yours that is their business.

It may very well be dad cannot get hold of her at her mum's because her mum has tried to turn her against her dad.

But at some point you might want to talk to dad yourself and tell him that he shouldn't be organising his relationship with his daughter via your phone.

I think it would be unusual for an 11 year old to say so clearly she does not want to go with her dad to do fun activities.

You can not turn an 11 year old against their dad if the dad has previously had a good relationship with the child.
My dad would swear that his ex wife turned his kids against him, he did it all himself.

You should be blocking his calls, not just refusing to answer them. He has no right to make your heart sink and take up your mental capacity pondering the situation. Block.

no-one has said when the parents separated, doesnt seem to be recent. You certainly can turn children against a parent if you have care of them long enough.

I've known women who would say they didnt turn their children against their father when it was obvious to anyone else they did everything they could to do so. Women are not always saints.

I've broken things sometimes, dont regard that as significant - we dont have any idea how or why or whether it was an accident.

The children dont, at present want to see him so I wouldnt facilitate it, I wouldnt make the assumptions made here though.

I would assume the father has done something wrong because I think it is unusual that an 11 year old would not want to take up the treats offered.
But whether the father has done something wrong in the past is irrelevant. What he is doing now is wrong.

I'd send a text asking him to stop requesting access through you and to go through mum in future.

He could be dodgy or alternatively he could just be a father desperate to maintain contact with his child. Anne's mum seems weird. We don't know her role in this.

I'd stay out of it op.

@HennyPennyHorror I think you’re giving this man way too much benefit of the doubt. He sounds like a stalking abuser and he’s now started to harass you and your family. I’d start reporting this to the police honestly. He’s already trespassed into your garden / home. He literally crossed your boundaries without your permission. Tell him to never call you again and if he doesn’t stop you’re going to log it with the police as harassment. Put his number on a silent ringtone and do a screenshot of the call log to give to Anne’s mum and the police. It sounds like he’s trying to abduct Anne.

Except he is currently behaving inappropriately.

I'm in complete agreement with justilou1, this is stalky AF.

Block his number and, at the very least, inform the school.

Something to remember - you are minding Anne on behalf of her mother not both her parents. You have to abide by what her mother wants you to do unless you feel it compromises Anne's safety or that of your DD. It certainly isn't your role to negotiate custody and visitation!

I think that the father is out of order putting you in this position. If he wants access he should go through proper channels.

Anne’s mum knows you and your DD are being dragged into this situation and it’s making you feel uncomfortable ( whatever the situation is only her and Anne’s dad really know). She is making her own DD Anne be the one who says no rather than taking the responsibility herself, this is not the way adults normally deal with things. What if Anne did agree to go with her dad how would her mum know where she is? Is she expecting you to be the concerned adult , that she seems unable to be, and let her know where her own child is?
What if Anne’s dad is / has been abusive and one day he doesn’t take no for an answer and takes Anne anyway, what if your DD is there, and tries to intervene? What might he do to her?
For your own DD’s sake I would not have Anne over, would not allow them to walk home together etc, and I would tell Anne’s mum why. She might decide to deal with the situation in a better way and not just shrug her shoulders and ignore what is going on, if it involves you refusing to have Anne over at all.

He's understandably worried you'll make her walk miles in 40 degree heat.

I wouldn't answer the phone to him. If it's urgent he'll leave a message.

You've been put in a very awkward situation by both Anne's mum and dad. It's awful that Anne has been left to navigate this on her own too, her parents should be communicating and helping her through it.
I would 100% be making Anne's mum have a conversation with me and I'd tell her how uncomfortable I was with being a go between for access.
I'm in Oz too op btw, I think it's bloody weird he let himself into your property. I'd never do that, much less a rural area where you have no idea what animals might be around.

Morning it's winter here now.

@coffeeonthesofa

I agree. Anne's mother is using you for childcare but not keeping you clearly in the loop.

I would contact her via text and tell her you need to speak to her and clarify exactly what is going on.
If she refuses, then I would tell her that you will no longer have Anne over.
Anne's mother is not being fair.
She is putting too much on a young child.
I would not answer the phone to the father.
I would not want him near my home or child.
Something is very wrong here yet he is being facilitated.
He should not be calling or visiting your home.
Anne's mother needs to step up.

Throw a mental and practical cordon around the play dates. Organise them only with Anne’s mum. Stop answering his calls (seems obvious) and text him that you’ve decided for simplicity that all arrangements will go through Anne’s mum, as you’re used to play dates involving only one set of communications.

If he persists, text him that you’ll be blocking his number if he keeps trying, but that you’d prefer not to in case of emergency.

Poor Anne, by the way. What a crappy home life this speaks to.

Balloon they're 11. Nobody goes to pick them up...kids either walk or if they live out in the sticks, they get a bus.

Billy Anne's Mother is not using me for childcare. The child is 11 not 6 and she has older sisters at home who can babysit.