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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stormzy AIBU

548 replies

MissChananderlerbong · 29/06/2019 09:40

Prepared to be told I'm being old and boring.
I enjoyed Stormzy's set, he's obviously a progressive liberal guy, and he seems like a good human.
So why the sexist lyrics?
"Finish on her face to top it off (ay)"
"If her friend is a dead ting, take one for the bredren"
"2 peng tings at the entrance" (just feels wrong calling women 'things')
If he was just another artist then fine, but he seems so principled in so many other ways. So I find this odd.

OP posts:
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VladmirsPoutine · 29/06/2019 15:02

@Pa1oma I agree with you there again. I'm not the decider or preserver of who should/shouldn't take offence. If someone takes issue with his lyrics then that's wholly and entirely valid. I'm not here to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't take issue with. I'm just saying that if it were for example Ed Sheeran or Justin Bieber - it'd be an entirely different thing. Yes we'd take issue with it and yes there might be a thread or two about it but we need to understand context and society when we have these discussions. A young black man that headlined Glastonbury is in itself fucking miraculous.

Vulpine · 29/06/2019 15:04

Although a young black woman did it first

VladmirsPoutine · 29/06/2019 15:09

Young black men who come from where Stormzy came from often end up in a shit life. Be it by involvement with police/drugs/gangs/crime. Their fate is often decided before they even have a chance to understand it. Stormzy is telling his lot how to be, how to live. Offering inspiration and hope for the thousands of young black men such as himself. Those young black men aren't going to listen to us ranting on Mumsnet - but they'll listen to him. Yes I do think that therefore he should be mindful of the language he uses but this isn't a battle we'll win from the off. If the downfall of society comes from Stormzy calling a woman a slut then society was already fucked from the off. And he did a bloody good job of calling Theresa May out on Grenfell.

Vulpine · 29/06/2019 15:14

Telling his lot how to be, telling his lot how to live, telling his lot how to jizz in some ho's face. Nice

Pa1oma · 29/06/2019 15:14

I do remember there have been threads about Ed Sheehan and his “shape if you song” though. As I said, that didn’t bother me on the surface but if there’s more to him I stand to be corrected.

It would be even more miraculous if Stormzy could have headlined in a way that showed people that rap /grime does not need to be synonymous with misogyny. It’s would be so so easy for him to do - and what an impact that could have. If you can break down race barriers, why not break down misogyny to boot because then he could be double fucking miraculous and not alienate anyone. Even the white, pearl-clutching middle-aged feminists of MN.

itscallednickingbentcoppers · 29/06/2019 15:25

' Is Glastonbury the sacred oath of white indie men with guitars singing solo? Is that why everyone seems to lose their shit whenever a black man has the audacity to encroach on that safe space?'
Yeah you've hit the nail on its head there!

GreatOne · 29/06/2019 15:26

Even the white, pearl-clutching middle-aged feminists of MN.
Truthfully?.....because he's not here for them. Or taking a stand for them. Not even remotely. Quite unashamedly. They're not a group that NEEDS him or his impact.
As referenced, indirectly, in the lyrics of his latest song, The Crown.

SpamChaudFroid · 29/06/2019 15:38

Ting = things
I have never heard of the chinese language theory before. It doesnt make sense in the way the word is used in broader conversation for a start.

VladmirsPoutine · 29/06/2019 15:38

It would be even more miraculous if Stormzy could have headlined in a way that showed people that rap /grime does not need to be synonymous with misogyny

Stormzy isn't here to appease white feminism. Again: Unless you look, sound and act like them they will constantly shoot you down. Stormzy doesn't need to appeal to the white middle-aged pearl clutches among us. He is all the more better for it, in my opinion.

Allhailthesun · 29/06/2019 15:41

Although the Glasto he was rightly proud of headlining is very white middle class.

Pa1oma · 29/06/2019 15:42

Er, yes I think people realise he’s not here for MN Grin But he could make a little effort with his lyrics, you know, for women of all ages across the world aka 50% of his audience and the human population. It wouldn’t be asking much - just leave out the words we all avoid in day to day life? Doesn’t matter where you come from; it’s no excuse. Any adult should be able to manage that.

So I’m just a mid-40s mum born in Spain. If I happened to headline Glastonbury as the first woman from Spain and threw in a few racial slurs into my lyrics or the odd direct homophobic lyric, would people say, “Oh no, don’t be offended anyone. She wasn’t aiming at YOU after all. Anyway, you have to look at it in the social context of where she’s coming from...” No they wouid not. There would be outrage on just about every level imaginable and rightly so.

You can’t use where you are coming from to exempt yourself from offending people. Just grow up and do better as a human being, basically. Especially if you’re in a highly influential position.

Juells · 29/06/2019 15:42

Of all people I'd have expected to react badly to his lyrics, black women would be top of the list. You're who he's talking about. It's black women he's referring to in those dismissive ways. You're willing to defend him purely because of his race.

I can't see Linda Bellos (black feminist) going along with the tack you're taking.

SweetJasmine17 · 29/06/2019 15:44

Everyone- I don't like the phrase 'peng ting' but it literally just means pretty girl. It's not meant to be offensive, though I personally don't like it🙄

Justasecondnow · 29/06/2019 15:46

But if you replace white feminism with ‘anti misogyny’ You’re saying Stormzy is all the better for embracing just a wee bit of misogyny?

By the way I do think he’s an impressive character and done far more good than harm.

Pa1oma · 29/06/2019 15:51

I couldn’t give a hoot about “peng ting” and that kind of phrase. I’d prefer my daughters to not feel obliged to have men finish in their faces, however and that kind pressure is insidious within these particular lyrics.

Pa1oma · 29/06/2019 15:52

Anyway, doesn’t he just live in New Malden these days?

VladmirsPoutine · 29/06/2019 15:53

@Juells Yes. All of us black feminists usually read from the same script. My memo must have got lost in the post. I shall consult the other black feminists on what white women are prescribing for us.

Pa1oma · 29/06/2019 16:01

I’m not sure she meant “black feminists” Vladimir. She was asking you, personally, as an individual black woman.
You really don’t need to identify as a feminist, black, white or otherwise, to feel uncomfortable with words such as slut in mainstream music. Especially when it’s aimed at your daughters.

darthbreakz · 29/06/2019 16:06

NO! YANBBloodyU!

He ejaculating on the girls face to humiliate her boyfriend. It makes me really sad.

I've been on my soapbox about this since I fist heard the song. I don't dislike Stormzy at and I think a lot of what he talks about in his songs is really important. What I think is really sad is that lots of kids learn about what they think sex is through porn and I read an article a few years ago about a young woman (a teenager) whose boyfriend wouldn't kiss her but expected sex acts that went way beyond the intimacy level of snogging. And she accepted because she wanted him to like her and just thought it was what was expected. I feel really sad and I think this reinforces that sort of approach to sex for young people.

Talk to your kids about sex, people. All of it - what to expect, what to accept and when someone is taking the piss. Your boys and your girls.

Just a disclaimer - I know some people, men and women alike are fine with facials and whatever gets you off is no business of mine. But there is an element of degredation to it and in BDSM relationships, where facials broadly sit in the grand scheme of things (albeit towards the vanilla end of the spectrum), it's standard to talk through what everyone's OK with BEFORE the clothes come off. It doesn't sound like that's what's going on here.

Alternatively, Stormzy might be really into female ejaculation and it might be him getting the facial. I'm on the brink of believing this so that I can carry on quite liking him.

GreatOne · 29/06/2019 16:22

For those who missed the glastonbury set the BLACK BALLET segment and GOSPEL elements were first class!!
Definitely worth watching those on iplayer

VivienneHolt · 29/06/2019 16:28

Just like on that song by Justin Bieber, “You can go and f yourself.” They changed the lyric for the radio, because if it had been left to stand, people would have heard it and complained.*

The lyric is ‘you should go and love yourself’. There is no version of that song which says ‘fuck yourself’. The whole point of it is that it subverts expectations.

I’ve never listened closely enough to Ed Sheeran’s lyrics to form an opinion. I have heard people complain about him singing about the “shape of you” or whatever. That doesn’t bother me. It wouldn’t bother me if a black singer or rapper sang about the “shape of you” either. A woman could sing that about a man. If it was “the shape of the slut”, that would obviously be a different matter. As to the other Ed Sheehan lyric quoted earlier, a woman could write lyrics about a man, “do you have a history of leading girls on?” This is not the same as directly using the word “slut” which is a direct insult and leaves no room for interpretation or context.

So you only object to misogyny if it’s explicit language, but you don’t have a problem with lyrics which perpetuate the harmful idea that women are shallow and vapid and choose high status men at the expense of nice guys who actually love them. You’re entitled to that view, but I think you should question why you’re unhappy with one and not the other, and in particular whether there is racial bias playing into your feelings.

As I said earlier, if a man shouted slut at me in the street, do you think I’d care if he was white or black? Really? It’s the fact it’s coming from a man that would affect me.

I’m sure this is true but I don’t think it’s totally relevant to what we are discussing.

VivienneHolt · 29/06/2019 16:30

Of all people I'd have expected to react badly to his lyrics, black women would be top of the list. You're who he's talking about. It's black women he's referring to in those dismissive ways. You're willing to defend him purely because of his race.

It really isn’t for white women to tell black women how they should feel about an artist like Stormzy...

Pa1oma · 29/06/2019 16:44

Vivienne- I’ve already explained that, but you’re repeating the same question.

I used to part-excuse misogynistic lyrics as “in a context”, but now I don’t. It’s boring. I have daughters. I don’t know how anyone can even be bothered. If my husband came out with that, I’d slap him in the face. Who wouldn’t. That’s all there is to it.

Vulpine · 29/06/2019 16:51

Maybe he'll change when he has daughters of his own? Maybe not but you can hope

Raaaaaah · 29/06/2019 16:51

YANBU at all. I’m with you Pa1oma. It’s so depressing to see people even try to defend this kind of crap.